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Original poster

Vaccinations and nursery schools

578 replies

Louise1010 · 13/07/2012 00:04

This is my first post so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

I am just beginning to look at nursery schools for my 15 month old son, and I am a bit surprised that they don't seem to care whether or not he has been vaccinated. I expected it to be a requirement.

It seems incredible to me that I have to provide evidence of my cat's jabs to the cattery but when it comes to children anything goes.

Has anyone come across a nursery school in the UK that does require it?

OP posts:
seeker · 10/08/2012 18:43

Well, I for one am baffled. My understanding is tha there is some circumstantial evidence to support the idea that long term ingestion of aluminium might make altzheimer's worse- but none idence at all to suggest that it causes Altzheimers's. And no evidence at all that it is even a minor contributory factor in autism. Is this what everyone else on this thread thinks too? Please could people say whether or not they agree and if not which bit they don't agree with. And then maybe we can move on?

Tabitha8 · 10/08/2012 18:45

Move onto what? When people answer your question, round and round we'll go again.

ElaineBenes · 10/08/2012 19:00

Tabitha
If I post a link to an abstract and I do not have a copy of the full document, then I'd be prepared to listen to anyone who reads the full document with a sensible and adult approach and then tells me, in a sensible and adult way, that the paper is incorrect or superceded because of x, y and z. Yet, that hasn't happened here.

Tabitha - I did on the paper you pasted trying to link al and autism. You just ignored it!!!!

ElaineBenes · 10/08/2012 19:00

Bruffin - you are the most sensible poster on this thread

JoTheHot · 10/08/2012 19:55

I hereby fully acknowledge Leonie and tabitha's inalienable rights to advocate crossing the road without looking, to advise pensioners to invest in the shares of insolvent companies, and last but not least, to post views on vaccination without bothering to verifying them first.

seeker · 10/08/2012 21:08

"Move onto what? When people answer your question, round and round we'll go again"
How about giving it a try? Tell me what your concerns about aluminium are. You obviously think you already have, but I still don't understand. So tell me again in different words. I'm not stupid. I understand stuff. But I din't understand this. So tell me again. In your own words- not by posing a link to something that I can't fully access,

ElaineBenes · 10/08/2012 22:35

It's OK seeker. Me too. I also don't yet know what Tabitha's or Bumbley's specific concerns are regarding Al and vaccines. They just keep denying having made any claims but haven't yet revealed exactly what their concerns actually are. It's all very confusing.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 13:46

EB, I haven't said anything much about it so I'm not surprised you don't know. Tbh I don't think I would bother sharing any concerns I did have on this thread anyway. It's not actually a very nice place to be.

ElaineBenes · 11/08/2012 14:07

You've said a lot about al and vaccines, just not what the concerns actually are.

Given that you don't want to share your concerns (fair enough), we're left with the evidence that there are no long term effects from al in vaccines.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 14:19

I think if you look back you'll find that I haven't. Unless you count 'Tabitha has not said that Al causes alzheimer's and/or autism.' I've said that a lot.

ElaineBenes · 11/08/2012 14:25

So pointless. If you or taBitha had any evidence, you'd have dragged it out by now. Tens of posts just saying what al doesn't cause. Typical strategy to confuse and muddle the issue. And then to say 'oh, I still have concerns, I just don't want to tell you what they are'

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 14:48

I don't think the intent was to confuse and/or muddle the issue. We could have had quite an interesting discussion about people's concerns about Al toxicity. Instead, people started asking ridiculous questions about whether or not someone thought Al caused Alzheimer's based on a link to the Alzheimer's website that said nothing of the sort and so on and so forth.

If you don't want issues to become muddled and confused maybe you should just read what people write instead of jumping to conclusions and assuming things so that they have to keep going back to correct you. It stops discussions moving forward.

PigletJohn · 11/08/2012 14:50

and of course
"Aluminium (adjuvant) is in the 5-in-1 and another childhood one as well iirc.

Big increase in pertussis cases in adolescents and adults in the US over the last decade - somewhere for you to start"

Some might think that was a suggestion (without any evidence, obviously) that Aluminium was linked to an increase in disease. Others might think it was just vague nonsense.

and, on a thread about vaccination,
"Just to confirm, are people here arguing that there is no evidence that Al is toxic?"

Some people might think that was a suggestion that Alumium when found in vaccines was toxic. Others might think it was just vague nonsense.

and
"you accused Tab of saying that Al causes autism and Alzheimer's"

Some people might think that was an accusation (with no evidence ever provided). Others might think it was just vague nonsense.

ElaineBenes · 11/08/2012 15:08

It reminds me of when my little one tries to impress my big one and says 'oh yes, I know, I'm just not going to tell you!'

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 15:19

PJ, I don't understand your first point at all. why on earth would anyone assume that statement was a suggestion that Aluminium was linked to an increase in Pertussis? I just don't see that.

Your second point. It isn't specifically about Al in vaccines. It is a question(mine I believe) about whether people were arguing whether Al is not toxic in general. It was asked because of some of the statements people were making made it sound like they were saying that Al is not toxic at all which it is. There is a link to Al toxicity earlier. (possibly on the other thread) Just to clarify for you - the link is about Aluminium toxicity not about Al in vaccines.

You really do have an issue with the last one. You asked Tab several times if she was saying that Al caused Alzheimer's/ autism and you asked me why I thought she was posting her links if she didn't think there was a connection between them. To me, that sounds like you think Tab is saying that Al causes Alzheimers/autism but you have denied that any time I have asked you whether that is the case. So, tbh I don't really know what/why you were asking her and me at all.I have said several times that if you weren't saying that/ accusing her of that/ whatever then that is great.

From the above, it really does seem like you have problems jumping to conclusions and misinterpreting things so I can see why you have had difficulties on this thread.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 15:21

Eb, I said I wouldn't share my concerns on this thread because it isn't very nice and it would just result in more patronising nonsense and mudslinging. Not very nice.

JoTheHot · 11/08/2012 15:31

bm, you most definitely have expressed your view of the toxicity in vaccines. I asked you:

'bm. Do you think there is evidence that the dose of Al in vaccines is toxic?'

you said

'Jo, I don't know.'

I then asked

'bm given that you say you have no opinion either way on the toxicity of Al in vaccines, do you therefore recommend the precautionary approach of being vaccinated?'

you didn't reply.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 15:48

How is that expressing my view exactly? Do you want to tell me what you've gathered about my view of the 'toxicity in vaccines' from the statement "I don't know" in relation to whether there is evidence that the dose of Al in vaccines is toxic?

I can't wait to see what you come up with.

PigletJohn · 11/08/2012 16:00

when trying to disseminate ill-informed fear and unease, it is important to avoid saying anything specific. If you say the actual truth, people will not be afraid; if you say anything untrue, it can be proved that you are wrong.

Best to stay vague if you haven't got anything solid to say.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 16:08

Didn't EB actually asked Tabitha why she was concerned about additives in vaccines? She didn't just randomly start talking about Aluminium. She was trying to answer EB's question. I'm not sure why you would think that is trying to 'disseminate ill-informed fear and unease.'

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 16:08

actually ask*

JoTheHot · 11/08/2012 16:08

'I don't know' unavoidably means that to the best of your knowledge, there is no evidence for aluminium toxicity in vaccines. I understood this to mean you were suspending judgment.

Is it instead your position that you are unaware of any evidence that Al in vaccines is toxic, but in spite of this you believe it is toxic? A truly absurd position, but perhaps I was too quick to rule it out.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 16:14

Actually, it means that I don't know whether the dose of Aluminiumin vaccines is toxic. Full stop. That is not the same as 'there is no evidence for Al toxicity in vaccines' .

I'm not sure where I've said that I believe the level of Al in vaccines is toxic either. You're making up posts for me again I think.

seeker · 11/08/2012 16:41

Yes, aluminium is toxic. Of course it is. But the dose makes the poison.

bumbleymummy · 11/08/2012 16:59

Yes, seeker. Do you know what that dose is for Al? Do you know how much Al is absorbed from vaccines? Do you know what a child's individual excretory capacity for Al is?

I'm asking because I'm interested not because I'm saying that 'all Al containing vaccines are toxic' or something. (just want to make that clear for certain posters who seem to struggle with interpreting things)