Any old prolapse! Uterus/womb prolapse, rectocele, cystocele, enterocele, urethrocele, incontinence, pelvic floor, anterior and posterior repair, TVT etc part 4

[Ben10NeverAgain]

This is thread 3 of a long-running series of posts from ladies suffering from pelvic prolapses to support each other through the process of diagnosis, repair and recovery.

Here are the previous threads:
Thread 1
Thread 2

Info from BBC Health

What is a pelvic prolapse?

As the muscles, ligaments and supporting tissues in the pelvis become weaker, they are less able to hold in the organs of the pelvis such as the womb (uterus) or bladder.

Gravity pulls these organs down and, in the more severe cases, may appear through the entrance to the vagina.

A variety of problems can occur, depending on where the weakness lies and which organs are able to descend, but in every case there is some degree of prolapse of the vaginal wall, which begins to invert (rather like a sock turning inside out).
Prolapse of the womb or uterus is the most common prolapse, affecting as many as one in eight older women to some degree
Prolapse of the bladder, known as a cystocele, is less common.
Prolapse of the urethra (the tube that carries urine out of the bladder) is known as a urethrocele.
Prolapse of the intestines is quite rare, and known as an enterocele or rectocele.

Symptoms

Symptoms depend on which tissues descend, and how severe the prolapse is.

They may include:
A sense of heaviness or pressure in the pelvis.
The appearance of a bulge of tissue in the genital area, which can be quite alarming, and is often red and sore.
Urinary problems, such as having to urinate more frequently, feeling the need urgently, being incontinent (losing control of the bladder) or, conversely, being unable to pass urine when you need to.
Pain in the pelvis or lower back.
Sexual problems, including pain and decreased libido.
Constipation.
Vaginal discharge or bleeding.

Treatment and recovery

Once a prolapse has developed, surgery to fix the affected organs is usually the only way to cure it effectively.

However, another option is to use a device known as a vaginal ring pessary. This is rather like a contraceptive diaphragm or cervical cap. It's made of silicone or latex, and placed in the vagina to push back the prolapsed organs and hold them in place. Many women happily manage their prolapse this way.

Surewoman it's not TMI I appreciate it very much & sorry you've had so much trouble too

Wouldratherbeskiing, I know what you mean about giving your body time to recover from one Op it's hard to get your head around more surgery, although mine was pretty straight forward &!painless till these pressure pains started about 2 weeks in..

Let's see what today brings :)

Sure woman just spotted your new post & lol! Re men's willies..
Don't know if it's been the same for everyone in th UK but every appointment has been with someone different, the day of my Op it was a different consultant turned up, although my notes say the original guy, It's a woman's hospital only so maybe that's why they have so many consultants ?

Sure - you have eloquently put my thoughts in words, that's why I'm not rushing into anything. I was, I think lucky (how do you know?) to have a urogynae do my op and would definitely want him for any further surgery however long I have to wait. I need to get to 'this as good as it gets' and then I will be able to make a decision. That period really set me back thinking the repair had failed etc. as everything set on edge and was so sore. All settled down again now.

Gail - wouldn't it be great to be able to just have a chat with the actual person who did the op to allay fears etc? It doesn't seem a lot to ask. If I do have further surgery I will not be quite so keen to chase the post-op check up and be discharged.

Hope it's a good day for you all.

Good morning all, have just been catching up on the messages. Hope you are all ok this morning. Have had my first BM this morning ( not a pleasant experience at all!!) Took about half an hour (is that normal?) was so conscious of not straining. Was absolutely exhausted after and have just had to sleep for the last hour and half! Feel really battered now. Hope it's not going to be like that every time?

skinikki - promise it does get better. At first it seems to 'set everything off' - you are doing the right thing resting when needing to. Another hurdle over :)

As we thought its a Cystocele :( Dr doesn't want to ask for Urgent appointment as says hospital won't operate so soon after this one (unless it was an Emergency) He says the rectocyle repair looks great & very solid, so happy about that. Just need to get my head around ignoring these pressure pains & going for a wee by the clock rather than my feelings...

Gail - sorry it's been confirmed. So many of us on here can empathise with you - I definitely can as I'm in the same boat. Rubbish isn't it!?

I think when we need a new thread (Ben10??? I'm smiling nicely!) perhaps that is something that could be put on the header. Whilst risk of re-occurrence of a prolapse is mentioned in info leaflets from hospitals, I don't remember reading about a repair causing other prolapses on there either. Wonder why?

I've just had a thought occur to me (one of the few these days!) - has anyone ever had the strength of their pelvic floor muscles assessed? If so, who did it? Just wondering as several people on here have been told to do pfe's (myself included) and I know studies disagree with the value of doing them. Any thoughts? (I know as a general thing they're good, but as an excuse to put off needed surgery, well that's something else isn't it?)

Lights touch paper and steps back possibly!!!

Fen when I did my incontinence test part of that tests the pelvic floor muscles as you need them to stop the wee coming out unexpectedly! I did not have tape as they said pelvic floor was fine.

Gail sorry to hear your news I would keep pushing for the other repair.

Yeah I got an appointment to see consultant next week, thank you for all the advice and support feel very relieved.

Gail - why can't you be referred so you can go on the waiting list?

Gail - to give you an idea regarding time between ops; enterocele/posterior repair in Nov, Stitches surgically removed in Feb (involved re-opening scar from previous surgery) and anterior/posterior/tvt in June - so all in all, 7 months and three ops. I'd go on the waiting list now as that will probably be about 2/3 months x

Have I got news for all of you!! I had a post op check up today (2 weeks post op) with consultant who did the op. He is "positively pleased" with the results and said:

• When weeing, it is a three step process from now on after anterior repair:

1. Don't rush, take your time (even if it means plan ahead) ie. not a quick wee as you rush off for work!
2. When you think you have finished push/press on your lower abdomen and lean forward to see if you can squeeze a bit more out.
3. Stand up, walk about a bit, then go again, even if it is just a tiny bit.

• Listen to your body in terms of what you feel like doing as this is the most reliable, gradually increase your activity

• Shopping bag in each hand is ok; heavy lifting is somthing like a big bag of fertilizer (or hay bails!)

• Exercise?; if you feel up to it (honestly) then do it, again listen to your body

• Lots of surgeons aren't comfortable about A & P repairs together as it can cause adhesions if they are not experienced.

• With regard to the TVT incisions, you always get one side higher than the other, depending on RH or LH surgeon i.e. if RH it is difficult/awkward to skewer the woman on the right side. I said it must have been terrifying doing that to a woman for the first time or had he practiced on cadavars or chickens (lol!). He said he was petrified but had had a good team of consultants from Kings to hold his hand as it was shaking so much!! Now he does these things daily.

• Then, he told me that the procedure and tape (TVT-O) the bloody useless first consultant had wanted to use on me had been recalled from the market and had I had it inserted then I would now, without doubt, be having mesh erosion, pain and problems and would definitely need to have had it removed surgically. I am so endebted to this lovely man who I owe big time for saving my vagina and my sanity. Massive bottle of very nice red wine going to him!

• He was so lovely and really wanted to know how it all felt, pain, infections, etc. and said I had done the right thing to get ab's as all was looking fab. How were BM's, try and cut down on lactulose as soon as, to get bowel working properly.

I am nearly, nearly, in the ((0)) club and he wants to see me after he gets back from his holidays!!! Wonder if I will receive a ((0)) club membership certificate

So sorry to hear your news Gail. From my reading online, it would seem that they like to wait 6mths before a second op, but as Fen says, you may as well go.through the palava of pfe referral/ waiting list etc so you're good to go when you can if that's your chosen course of treatment.

I think I may get the same news tomorrow, as the bulge that was there before has gotten worse but am trying not to get worked up about it, just preparing myself for bad news so I won't be too upset iykwim. Already feeling pretty stupid for saying it doesn't hurt much...since the sensation has come back I now understand in some detail what.everyone has been talking about.

#everydayi'mshufflin :o

Sure - wow...sounds like s great post op and a fabby consultant! Go you!

And thanks for sharing that info with all of us - v. useful :)

Sure I'm so pleased for you! )And a tiny bit jealous - in a good way.)

Sure thats fab you must be so pleased after all this time to get some good news. I am sure you will soon be a fully signed up member of the ((0)) club.

So grateful to everyone for posting in so much detail. There really is no such thing as TMI when you are desperate to work out what is happening to your bits.

It has taken me a while to get back to posting as one of my current fears is being discussed - the one where the consultant repairs the anterior and ignores the posterior or vice versa.

I've seen my consultant twice and although the cystocele is obvious he says he cannot see a rectocele. Both times nerves got the better of me which meant a panicky visit to the loo and therefore the cupboard was bare when he had a look. He insisted on an examination with me lying flat on my back as well which didn't help as it all seemed to flop back inside.

He doesn't seem at all interested in looking for a possible rectocele which is very frustrating because the pooing is the most difficult and uncomfortable part for me.

I fear that he will repair the cystocele and we will find it was doing its bit to keep the rectocele in check and the rectocele will then become rampant.

I might go from having a bowel movement every 9 or 10 days to one every month or so! I might become just a great bloated bowel!!! If only I could harness the uncontrollable farting I might turn it into something positive and teach myself to trump the national anthem.

My op has been postponed from 12th July to 23rd July now.

Not really sure what I'm trying to say with this post, just that I am still here lurking and I'm grateful to be sharing your experiences before I have my own.

Livelong I really felt for you after reading your post.

I was in a similar position before my op. I had a major Rectocele and small cytocele. The consultant was ony interested in repairing the rectocele. When I went in for surgery I ask him to do the cystocele as well. He said he would have a look but to leave it to him. When I woke up to my relief he had done both.

I would keep asking or ask for a second opinion if you are really unhappy.

Livelong - glad you are talking to us as it will help keep you sane ! My advice would be to press for him doing both and if he says no, ask him why not (ie does he not have enough experience, will you not have enough surgery time, etc. etc.) otherwise you will be back in hospital 7 months later and feeling like shite! If he still says no, ask if he could recommend any colleagues that would be able to do both at the same time! That should get him moving! xxx

Fen/Would rather - keep going, you will get there by christmas!!! So far, defo worth the wait. Mind you, definitely like a virgin again as he could only fit one finger in!!! Lol! (he said that is good, because once everything is healed then tissue will recover its elasticity quite quickly and stretch again... - actually not worried about that at all as he seems to know exactly what he is talking about. Will have to go down from super super plus to mini tampax size!

Pip - glad you got an appointment x

Roseanna - it is still early days yet, and you will still have a lot of swelling on the inside (?) so don't worry yet... xxx (fingers crossed it is good news tomorrow)

Skini - well done with BM - it's a killer, isn't it!!!

Shattered - are you ok?

Sure - great post, lovely to share in some good news and reports of some A* treatment. Wow lucky escape with the earlier tape. With all you've been through it doesn't bear thinking about that it could have been worse with erosion etc. Interesting your consultant mentioned possible adhesions if both ops done together. This happened to someone I know. She had terrible trouble but thankfully is fully recovered and in full working order so I am encouraged by that.

Livelong - It's bonkers that you are having to put up with all the horrible symptoms of a rectocele and yet they don't plan to fix it. I know from my own experience that what they diagnose at the outset as a small one can turn out to be a large one - as you say it is not so easy for them to feel it properly when you are laying down. I also have a suspicion that it could appear smaller in the morning than in the late afternoon if you've been on your feet all day - it sure feels different!!!! Good luck with being ascertive and getting them to listen to you.

Roseanna - good luck tomorrow. Hopefully it is not what you think.

Fen - how are you? In response to your earlier post I think I have mentioned before that the consultant that did my op wrote a paper with some other gynae's on the benefits of pfe to maintain prolapse, thereby preventing surgery. The evidence was in favour and therefore is probably used as a tried and tested method. Perhaps for that particular group of women they worked but as we all know here this isn't always the case.

Pip - such quick thinking on your part to ask for both to be repaired. I didn't know about the cystocele until after the op.

These conditions continue to be a minefield to navigate your way through. One of the reasons why I don't want to rush is that I want to ensure that the rectocele repair has healed and is holding well in case I need further darning. I feel like an old pair of socks - well, one sock I suppose!

or perhaps a leg warmer :)

Just listened to a message from GP - she gave me the wrong anti b's - augmentine and it should have been metronidazole, so have to stop other course tomorrow and start with the new lot (I seem to attract useless GP's and Consultants like flies to a carcass!!! Lol!) - will probably catch a cold now! Oh well....

(does anyone know how to start a new thread as I think I am in danger of using up all the last posts with my late night/early morning rantings!!!? Sorry!)

Roseanne1-hope you get better news than me, fingers crossed

Surewoman-you certainly been through the mill! Glad you've had good news today

Livelonger that must be awful to have Op moved, I wish I'd found this site earlier I'd have been armed with all this info before my last Op I would have pushed for both P&A to be one together regardless how small it was, it was always going to get bigger!

I called the consultants secretary today, they don't have any appointment before my 3 mth follow up in Sept, she's going to discuss in the next day or so with her about my problem & come back with time scale re next Op, have a private health care in work I can use ( have to pay 15% of bill max £300 ) so if not happy with NHS I'll go private..

Hi all

I had a bit of time this morning so created a new thread - number five

here

Hope it works ok

Pip