This illustrates why your vaccine choice matters to the rest of us

[CatherinaJTV]

one family's vaccine refusal killed one, another child, infected by the same unvaccinated pre-teen is still dying (since 2005):

justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/10/so-predictable-so-sad-natalie-dies-of.html

ooo, now the conspiracy theories come out - sheesh.

Danke Frau Holle
Thank you Calatalie
not making any money off my blog - you don't make money off blogspot blogs, we are not posting often anyway - people on Scienceblogs get money per clicks, but they post one or more blogpost per day - actually, kids are my motivation - you should be able to understand that...
donnie - I wasn't addressing anyone personally, so no, I don't think it would be anywhere near appropriate to mention a mumsnet poster on a totally unrelated blog

'totally unrelated'?

you mean the one you cut and pasted in order to start this thread?

Duh.

Catal

'I didn't read the OP as targetting people who have very good reason not to vaccinate'

But who gets to decide what is a good reason and what isn't? And Frau Why should parents have to prove their children are contra-indicated, and to what extent? Why can't the government simply PROVE that their children are NOT?

Saintlyjimjams - my last post in this thread - this is getting rather too silly.

I have seen machines like the Vantage Lite - very cool and totally enraging that the NHS would not pay for something that has been tested by you and made such a difference. I am sure you have looked at loads of alternatives, however, here are two thoughts:

1. have you looked at an ipod or ipad? The reason I am asking is because I saw the Vantage Lite-like machines at a conference 3 years ago and talked a bit with the exhibitors - they were presenting the machines for people who had lost their ability to speak due to stroke or neurodegenerative disease, but the lovely young man I talked to also told me about their use in children with autism (his little brother had autism, I remember). In any case I was at another conference recently, so three years later, and everyone now seemed to use iPads (no exhibitors there, but specialist nurses and relatives of patients). It seems similar software is available for iPads (and no, I am not getting money from Apple to post that here) and they would be much cheaper.

1. Looking at the image of the Vantage Lite, it is clear that it is a lot more robust than an ipod or ipad and those may be not at all suitable. But maybe some of those charities that provide mobility and communication devices (instead of the local health trust, sigh) still have a Vantage Lite in their stock rooms because everyone wants an ipad now? Wild idea, but it might be worth a shot asking if the alternative is to spend 6k.

1. Would a local charity be able to get a Vantage Lite cheaper (w/o VAT or because they are doing bulk purchases) for you?

1. Would the company give you an ex-demo for cheaper?

As I said, all of these might be avenues that you have checked out, but those were my thoughts.

You know you keep saying you are not posting anymore. Could you just actually do that?
I would be really grateful. Because your one sidded whitening about it being 'all about the children' doesn't sit well when you clearly don't give a shit about vaccine damaged children.

Stick to your blog where you can drone away without dissent

Cath.

Of course we've tried the iPad. The system the vantage uses is different (google lamp autism if you want to know more),

Yes we will approach a charity but we will not be considered until health, education and SS have said no. They are taking up to 18 months to day no. there is no need to take 18 months to say no, but there you are. The system doesn't care if your chikd doesn't have a voice (or wheelchair or whatever else is needed).

The system sucks when you have a severely disabled child - you end up very much on your own.

yes, about the system that fails the neediest - not sure this would be an option, but have a look:

www.ebay.com/itm/AAC-Augmentative-Communication-Speech-Device-Vantage-Lite-Brand-New-Box-/290621241120?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43aa603720

If it was an option and you have no one in the US who would serve as an "mailbox" (i.e. safely receive this and forward it to you, as the seller only ships in the US), I could help you with that - I have bought things on US ebay before and shipped them through friends of mine....

Jimjams, what a blast from the past!!!! You are well I hope?
I posted here years ago under a different name but remember you well. I always thought you information was very balanced. How are your kids (ds's? If I remember correctly??)
I now tend to get labelled as being pro vaccine, but I really just want to make sure people have all the information available to them so that they make an informed choice. Iirc you probably sat on the other side of the camp but with the same intentions, but I never found your posts to be biased or scare mongering and found the info you posted to be very informative and helpful to those at risk as well as the general population.

Anyway... Just reminiscing now, the vax threads aren't what they used to be.

Onto the question I had for you, I did a literature review on SSPE and I found that the link to the MMR was only theoretical. The only biopsied cases ever studied confirmed a diagnosis with wild measles.
I also found in the papers where the found a tiny number (2iirc) cases of SSPE in vaccinated children there was no biopsy confirmation and the authors suggested that the patients were more likely to have had a sub clinical period of measles prior to their vaccine. Ie their SSPE would still have been caused by wild measles.
Have you come across literature that confirms the diagnosis of with a biopsy?

If I remember correctly, you were always a supporter of vaccines for the general populous but believed that their should be better risk stratification for those children most likely to have a severe reaction??

I do worry about the small proportion of the population of the general population who chose not to vaccinate because they are unable to put the negative vaccine info in context.

Yes vaccines are not for everyone, but for the majority they have a very positive place in health promotion and disease prevention

Hi PIMS :)

TBH it's a while since I've looked at the SSPE literature, and it's so political now it's the sort of thing that's hard to find a sensible paper written about it. It's also so rare and the cases are so unusual that it'll be hard to link.

I have also read of the cases where SSPE has developed following both measles (wild) and MMR and the assumption has seemed to be that it was caused by the wild measles, although this has been disputed by others (given the length of time between development of symptoms etc). I think IIRC MIBE has been linked to cases after MMR.

I thought there had been a payout, - there's a 30 grand one mentioned here although it's not clear whether the payout officially named SSPE www.whale.to/v/mmr101.html "We were told by the consultant who treated him that his condition was caused by his vaccination." I do believe this - in that I believe the consultant said that - certainly my friend who's child regressed very severely following MMR was told by the consultant who treated him in HDU that his seizure and subsequent regression was 'probably' MMR linked. Officially, and certainly according to the govt consultants don't say this (and maybe they don't these days), but from talking to parents, they did. Likewise at conferences researchers will discuss the potential role of vaccines openly, but that never really makes it into the literature.

You've remembered my stance pretty well :) I do wish there was more choice in how vaccinations are given. I'd quite like ds2 and ds3 to have a tetanus jab for instance, but there is no way they are having the 5 in 1 (ds3 has had a seizure for starters and ds2 has had whooping cough so I don't want either of them having pertussis) but there's no option for a single jab (and we can't currently afford to go to London and get it given privately).

I don't worry too much about non vaccination as I think it's pretty rare. Everyone I've met who hasn't vaccinated has done so for reasons entirely unrelated to the Wakefield events. They've either never vaccinated (so not vaccinated children born before the blow up - nothing to do with Andy), or they've not vaccinated after reactions in their children (so like me vaccinated one or two children, then been forced to think again).

Jimjams, is there a place in London you can get single tetanus privately? Would be very grateful if you know of somewhere.

I don't know what the hell got pagwatch deleted but I completely support the impassioned but serious nature of her later posts.

This op is cruel and insensitive.

Hi punkinpie - yes Dr Richard Halvorsen

www.babyjabs.co.uk/dr_richard_halvorsen.htm

Thank you so much, Jimjams. You've no idea how useful that is to me.

saintly: I liked your
Guardian link.

yw punkin :) I like that link as well Blueberties - it's old now but still very relevant imo

'is knowingly turning them into potential murder weapons'

Ofh ffs

I will do a deal OP

I have 2 with ASd already; ds3 regressed post MMR.

Ds4 has traits, he' had emasles jab but need a booster: if I give him MMR and he regresses (that was what happened with ds3- had traits then a major post MMR regression) you will pay for 1-1 care for him then?

Becuase I go on a thread and learn that HB for separate accom will not be available to AS ds1 even though shared is not an option becuase of changes to the system

my friend told me that I needed to make ds3 see that he has to stop being autistic as he ahs never paid taxes and he can't expect to be looked after by her taxes

I had my BIl advocate euthanasia for my kids in front of them and ds1 knew exactly that his Uncle wanted him derad

And I am tired of all of it

and wish i could sleep and enver wake up so i don;t ahve to see them fail to cope alone as I age, SSd already say they won;t get help as they do not have an IQ under 60 even though ds3 has a functional age half his actual of 8

And I am now creating a murser weapon by doing my best not to make the situation even worse

peachy is public criminal no 1 don;t you know , trying to do ehr fucking best for ehr kids and failing them hugely

sometimes I hate MN

Peachy. Sorry you had to read it. Don't let it get to you.

Hard not to

Dh is collapsing agin; he has had MH issues since dx1, controlled but work and uni are piling up and the rpessure is too much: yesterday he ried to elave us on a packed motorway, just walk off.

He doesn't mean it but can't help it either.

I ahve to find work when he graduates as he works from home but can't really keep us all and who wants a tired, fat pushing 40 year old with AS traits? even my soon to be MA is in a field that is being cut (ASD). DS1 is thriving at his ASD base but I know that I can;t get him the support that allows it post 18, we'll be on our own, and he still hurts me daily. SSd know this; they do not care.

Sorry. Am going to ahve a cuppa and calm down

OP - you, for example, are a nasty nasty twat.

and should, at the very least, have the decency to apologise to Pag & others. You are a disgrace.

I have learnt a lot from MNs. Some of it rude, some of it shocking, some of it suprising.

One of the most interesting things I have learnt is why people do not vaccinate their children.

I am pro vaccination. I had an immunosuppressed child so I am incredibly biased.

But I respect the decisions of those who do not vaccinate their children and even I would not do things the way they do, I know that their decisions are for sound reasons.

I do not think using phrases like 'potential murder weapons' helps in anyway.
I angers me and I am for vaccination. You are managing to alienate those who may have potentially agreed with you.

I wouldnt now.

I will continue to have my children vaccinated because I have thought about it and made up my own mind. I expect others to do the same and make up their own minds.

I am more angry at those who allow their chicken poxy kids out than I am at parents who do not vaccinate.

Peachy I am so, so sorry, you sound so worn down by everything. This kind of thing makes me furious. People think oh it's just a link, it's just another way of describing it but no, it's a cruel moment in what must seem sometimes like a life of attrition.

I wouldnt normally say this, but as you are being super obnoxious "it's called survival of the fittest".