Measles outbreak in Europe

[bubbleymummy]

Interesting that there was a large outbreak in Bulgaria in 2009/2010 despite a vaccination rate of 96% Figures here

Germany also gets their outbreaks reliably in Steiner/Waldorf Schools with 20% measles coverage.

www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19605

Catherina In Halvorsen's book, on page 172, he tells the story of a little boy who died after his MMR. The vaccine strain of the measles virus was found in his brain biopsy. That was in 1999. He'd had his MMR ten months before he died.

It cannot possibly be an adverse event if all sspe cases are proved to be caused by wild measles.

There would be no need to list it -- as every single case reported during any trial or after vaccine has apparently, according to you, been proved not to be caused by the vaccine.

I can think of no other condition, disorder or disease which can be absolutely proved as not caused by a vaccine. All others rely on balance of probabilities and so on. But this can be proved.

The proof would be an absolute boon to the manufacturer. They'd certainly state that every single SSPE case was from wild measles if they could.

So I don't think you're right about that I'm afraid.

You don't make sense on this Caterina.

Ninety-five percent of children vaccinated with the current measles vaccine develop anti-measles antibody if vaccinated at age 12 months and 98 percent if vaccinated at age 15 months. If the first dose of the two-dose measles vaccination series is given no sooner than 12 months of age, greater than 99 percent of recipients develop anti-measles antibody. Measles vaccination usually leads to long-term immunity. Loss of immunity after vaccination, termed secondary vaccine failure, has been reported but is considered rare

Reference
Measles, mumps, and rubella--vaccine use and strategies for elimination of measles, rubella, and congenital rubella syndrome and control of mumps: recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP).

AUWatson JC, Hadler SC, Dykewicz CA, Reef S, Phillips L
SOMMWR Recomm Rep. 1998;47(RR-8):1.

There have been some crazy claims made on this thread.
Measles vaccine cancels natural immunity?? eh?? says who. Immunologists would whole hartedly disagree

BBM your article shows that outbreaks occur in unvaccinated populations.

For an immunised person to contract measles is as the research states a rare occurrence

France is a highly vaccinated population.

However, it does cut both ways: if it's so rare, there's very little risk to the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. In fact herd immunity becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you have a 50-50 split: the unvaccinated take the risk, the vaccinated are protected.

In 2000, measles was estimated to cause approximately 31 to 39.9 million illnesses worldwide with an estimated 733,000 to 777,000 deaths, making it the fifth most common cause of death in children under 5 years of age

There has since been substantial progress towards the measles control goals, with a reduction in estimated global measles deaths to 164,000 in 2008

references

Stein CE, Birmingham M, Kurian M, et al. The global burden of measles in the year 2000--a model that uses country-specific indicators. J Infect Dis 2003; 187 Suppl 1:S8.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Global measles mortality, 2000-2008. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2009; 58:1321.
Pan American Health Organization. Immunization in the Americas. new.paho.org/sur/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=91&Itemid=290 (Accessed on November 08, 2010).

However, it does cut both ways: if it's so rare, there's very little risk to the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. In fact herd immunity becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you have a 50-50 split: the unvaccinated take the risk, the vaccinated are protected.

I don't really get what you are saying. If you have a 50-50 split then 50% of the population are at risk of all the complications of measles and ultimately death as per the above posts. So where is the benefit in having 50% of the population unvaccinated?

I got a letter from my GP recently offering me the MMR, since I would only have received the single dose in childhood.

I had no idea it was possible for me to get it now.

Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis ? Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE) is a fatal, progressive degenerative disease of the central nervous system that occurs 7 to 10 years after natural measles infection. Its pathogenesis is not well understood but may involve persistent infection with a genetic variant of measles virus within the central nervous system

Griffin, DE, Bellini, WJ. Measles virus. In: Fields' Virology, Fields, BN, Knipe, DM, Howley, PM (Eds), Lippincott-Raven, Philadelphia 1996. p.1267.

SOTB its really important if you are of child bearing age that you have your rubella immunity checked and updated if necessary

SSPE is listed as a possible adverse event of MMR II.

But you can see that many people see benefits to being unvaccinated. Not least the certainty that one is not exposed to adverse events, the likelihood of which is unknown.

So it shouldn't really bother the vaccinated that 50 pc remain unvaccinated. It doesn't bother me that you are vaccinated.

BB I dont see that side effect listed in ANY of the literature.
Its certainly not in the british national formulary

It would bother me that 50% of the population would put themselves at unnecessary risk of a disease which could put serious strain on the NHS!
The developing countries are begging for this vaccination as they are seeing first hand the devastation caused by lack of immunisation!
pretty convincing reading

Would you suggest that 50% of the population should carry on having unprotected sex?
Imagine all the unnecessary damage that population would do to themselves with the transmission and complications of STIs (including some fatal ones)
Not only is it an unnecessary risk, but it puts an unnecessary strain on a health service that could be targeting its money on diseases that are not yet preventable or curable.

Its a very selfish concept

Halvorsen probably refers to one of the few cases of MIBE due to MMR. This child was immunocompromised, hence the brain infection. One of the unvaccinated (due to a known immune system problem) children who died in Germany after the last large measles epidemic, died of MIBE. SSPE is not caused by the MMR. Read www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15893837

I have quoted the package insert earlier in the thread.

Under ADVERSE REACTIONS
"Body as a Whole
Panniculitis; atypical measles; fever; syncope; headache; dizziness; malaise; irritability.
Cardiovascular System
Vasculitis.
Digestive System
Pancreatitis; diarrhea; vomiting; parotitis; nausea.
Endocrine System
Diabetes mellitus.
Hemic and Lymphatic System
Thrombocytopenia (see WARNINGS, Thrombocytopenia); purpura; regional lymphadenopathy; leukocytosis.
Immune System
Anaphylaxis and anaphylactoid reactions have been reported as well as related phenomena such as angioneurotic edema (including peripheral or facial edema) and bronchial spasm in individuals with or without an allergic history.
Musculoskeletal System
Arthritis; arthralgia; myalgia. Arthralgia and/or arthritis (usually transient and rarely chronic), and polyneuritis are features of infection with wild-type rubella and vary in frequency and severity with age and sex, being greatest in adult females and least in prepubertal children. This type of involvement as well as myalgia and paresthesia, have also been reported following administration of MERUVAX II.
Chronic arthritis has been associated with wild-type rubella infection and has been related to persistent virus and/or viral antigen isolated from body tissues. Only rarely have vaccine recipients developed chronic joint symptoms. Following vaccination in children, reactions in joints are uncommon and generally of brief duration. In women, incidence rates for arthritis and arthralgia are generally higher than those seen in children
(children: 0-3%; women: 12-26%),17,52,53 and the reactions tend to be more marked and of longer duration. Symptoms may persist for a matter of months or on rare occasions for years. In adolescent girls, the reactions appear to be intermediate in incidence between those seen in children and in adult women. Even in women older than 35 years, these reactions are generally well tolerated and rarely interfere with normal activities.
Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS); febrile convulsions; afebrile convulsions or seizures; ataxia; polyneuritis; polyneuropathy; ocular palsies; paresthesia.

Oh the bold didn't work - sorry -- you can see there at the bottom it says sub acute SPE.

Good point Catherine
A single case in the who lit search I did and the conclusion speaks volumes

The risk of such a serious adverse event must be balanced by the rarity of such an event and the overwhelming evidence supporting the efficacy of the vaccine in reducing the morbidity and mortality associated with measles.

I think the problems is you are discounting the unknown cost of adverse events, for example with your analogy of unprotected sex.

But anyway I think it's plain that you have implicitly acknowledged that the herd immunity argument is as dandelion seeds in the wind if you believe measles after vaccination to be so vanishingly rare.

Unfortunately the conclusion would seem to be an assumption rather than a finding as the numbers, costs and risks are unknown.

Very interested that gut issues are listed as an adverse reaction too, also no testing on fertility. It's really a gripping read.

But anyway I think it's plain that you have implicitly acknowledged that the herd immunity argument is as dandelion seeds in the wind if you believe measles after vaccination to be so vanishingly rare.

Can you read the references I posted supporting that this is a rare occurrence and Id be more than happy to discuss further thanks

I don't know why you talk of "a single reference by the WHO".

It's written on every single package insert. It's right there.

Sorry, can you reference your adverse effects post?