Measles outbreak in Europe

[bubbleymummy]

Interesting that there was a large outbreak in Bulgaria in 2009/2010 despite a vaccination rate of 96% Figures here

Emsy, do you have a link to these 18 deaths? I haven't heard of any and considering that there have only been 2 measles deaths (both in immunocompromised people) in the last 20 years or more then I would expect the media to be running wild with the story if it were true.

"many people didn't get vaccinated and this is very likely to be where the disease is hitting and then being passed on to people who are vaccinated or young children."

Passed on to those who are vaccinated? Are you therefore saying that vaccines do not provide protection? Why are you promoting it to prevent the spread of disease then if you don't think it works? If you have had the singles vaccine and still had measles then the vaccine obviously didn't protect you. you will, however, have natural lifelong immunity from having caught the disease and it will protect your baby for several months through passive immunity (longer protection that you would have been able to confer if you had only immunity from the vaccine).

Breastmilk does NOT confer measles immunity. Transplacental immunity does not last very long. Before the advent of measles vaccine loads of infants (ie under 1 year old) died of measles. There have been NO as in not one measles death in the UK this year to the best of my knowledge, but statistically, we should see 1 per 1000 cases (which is the case for Germany - about 1000 cases and 1 death to date, France had 4000 cases, 2 deaths).

That said, I think every child should get 2xMMR, mums who are too scared to vaccinate should talk this over with their health professional, mums who think measles are harmless and ride out herd immunity should be ashamed of themselves and mums who seek measles exposure for their kids should get their kids taken away from them because they must be completely unfit in the head (how is that for a strong opinion).

Bubbley - loads of patients died over the past 20 years of SSPE, so essentially of measles (just delayed). For each SSPE case, you can estimate 10 acute deaths - there will have been very strong underreporting of those.

I'm counting 22 from the HPA website which are attributed to 'late effects of measles' since 1992 so 19 years - data only given up to 2008. Is that loads of patients? We don't even know for sure that it is SSPE. Also where are you getting 10 acute deaths for each SSPE case from?

Bellini et al - 125 acute deaths, 11 cases of SSPE from the 1989/91 US epidemic www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16235165

47 SSPE cases in England and Wales between 1990 and 2002 according to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15557053 - that makes about 4 a year (Germany had 7 to 8 over a similar period, those numbers are consistent).

"47 SSPE cases in England and Wales between 1990 and 2002"

They must not all have been attributed to measles.The HPA figures (if you assume that all the later deaths were from SSPE) show it as just over 1 a year since 1992.

Really not seeing where this 1 sspe death = 10 acute deaths comes from. Also says that only 5 of those 11 deaths were related to measles.

SSPE's only cause is measles, therefore SSPE=measles death. You can read the papers for more background.

Why the discrepancy with the figures then? Why don't the HPA have those 47 SSPE cases recorded as measles deaths under 'late effects of measles' deaths?

I have no idea - do you want to ask them? I would find it interesting.

"Four children with a history of receipt of a measles containing vaccine were reported not to have had measles; two of these cases had a brain biopsy, and nucleotide sequence data confirmed wild measles infection. Brain biopsy specimens from a further three cases with a history of measles, of whom two had also had a history of vaccination, showed wild-type strain."
From your second link shows that you can also get SSPE even if you have been vaccinated.

Me too! :)

but the causative agent is the wild measles virus NEVER the vaccine virus and in most cases, the wild virus infection will have preceded the vaccination.

Did it say that in the study you linked to? Why would you vaccinate against measles if you've already had it naturally?

It is more so my general knowledge (just read a paper earlier today that showed "subclinical" measles, i.e. seroconversion without rash in quite a lot of unvaccinated kids - in Senegal, so a country with much higher measles prevalence). In Germany, some kids got the MMR after measles because they still needed the other M and R.

onagar: " Being vaccinated does not mean you can't catch it - it just makes it much less likely. 1 out of every 100 vaccinated is still unprotected. That means that more vaccinated people will have measles than unvaccinated (given the relative sizes of the groups) "

I believe this is mathematically incorrect - certainly for the UK where the uptake rate for MMR is approx 85%.

Take 1 million people:

850,000 will be vaccinated. 1% (as you say) are unprotected by the vaccine and still at risk.

8,500 vaccinated people are unprotected.

BUT 150,000 remain unvaccinated and at risk of measles.

With no other contributing factors, both groups, all 158,500 people are at the same risk of catching measles.

Bubbley - better description than WHO here: eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=19932

"A high number of children remain unvaccinated not only in the hard-to-reach communities but also in the general population, due to parental refusal and scepticism regarding the benefits of the vaccination."

that is the reason for outbreaks!

SSPE is an adverse event recorded after MMR.

www.drugs.com/sfx/measles-mumps-and-rubella-mmr-vaccine-side-effects.html

This could help to explain some of the numbers.

Nervous System
Encephalitis; encephalopathy; measles inclusion body encephalitis (MIBE) (see
CONTRAINDICATIONS); subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE); Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS);
febrile convulsions;

That's from the package insert of Merck MMR II.

"SSPE's only cause is measles"

That's not true. Did you not realise.

"but the causative agent is the wild measles virus NEVER the vaccine virus"

not true: see the vaccine package insert

"and in most cases, the wild virus infection will have preceded the vaccination."

just made up

SSPE has also been found in children who "never had measles or MCV" = subclinical measles.

Wild measles is the only demonstrated cause of SSPE, there are hardly any SSPE cases left in developed countries (usually in international adoptees or children with documented wild measles before their second birthdays) and in brain biopsies, vaccine virus has never been found, always wild virus.

It is listed as an adverse event on the package insert.

Take it up with Merck.

I was interested in reading that insert to find that MMR II hasn't been tested for carcinogenicity or effects on fertility.

Also interesting that an event following measles is seen as caused by measles: an event following measles vaccine is seen as caused by non-symptomatic measles.

Blueberties - it is listed as having been reported after MMR. SSPE has only ever been proven to be from wild measles. Its epidemiology supports that MMR does not cause SSPE. MCV has caused MIBE, but that is a different entity. I have nothing to take up with Merck.

Also interesting that an event following measles is seen as caused by measles: an event following measles vaccine is seen as caused by non-symptomatic measles.

if you cut up the brain of the deceased and find wild measles, what other conclusion could you come to?