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Original poster

MMR again!! Baby Leo had Singles!!

129 replies

pfer · 08/11/2005 07:44

Anyone else catch the paper headlines on TV this morning. Allegedly a Doctor has told them that baby Leo had the single jabs. If this is true I feel a little decieved.

I'd always make my own choice anyway but for Tony to say quite categorically that it's safe then go for the other option.......hmmmm

OP posts:
MeAndMyBoy · 09/11/2005 09:41

For me what is making me angry is the fact that our right of choice has been cut off - we should be given the right to choose what we feel is the best for our children and not have it dictated by government.

Parents have being forced into a situation where to have a choice they have to accept using unlicenced medical products and the lack of after care and support if you take this route and then being ostracised if you do, or to not vaccinate at all (a whole different debate but based on up take stats at local GP's parents in under privilaged areas are simply not vaccinating their kids). Yes he isn't solely in charge of policy making and instigation, but he is the person accountable to us.

It riles me that they get to have a choice for their family but that joe public is dictated to, ridiculed by the medical establishment for their concerns and generally ridden over rough shod, and such a public family has potentially been able to make a choice and that's all I am asking to be given the right to make a choice for my family.

ruty · 09/11/2005 09:46

sppedymama really. No one has talked about conspiracy theories. You sound a bit insulting.

SoupDragon · 09/11/2005 09:47

"they get to have a choice for their family" actually, they've had exactly the same choice as everybody else. They've not waltzed into their GP and demanded singles on the basis of their "status" they've done the same as 100s (1000s?) of other parents and gone elsewhere. And, of course, we don't actually know whether they have or haven't. If they issued a statement and said "Leo had the MMR" would you actually believe them? Or would you assume they were saying it to get the press off their backs?

ruty · 09/11/2005 09:50

no i'd believe them. as others have said, they'd have leaked it strategically to the press if they had. And what about the parents who trust the govt, believe the MMR to be safe and go ahead and have the triple? Yes, most of their children will be fine. A few may not be. I don't think that is acceptable.

ruty · 09/11/2005 10:01

just to clarify, i can see why the govt want to protect MMR. It does have its place. For children with no pre existing gut problems or severe family histories of auto immune disease it is probably safe and it is the best and quickest way of protecting the population. All I am saying is there are a small number of children out there, who some practising doctors already admit should have singles, but if the parent came to their NHS surgeries, they could not offer it to them, and would have to give them the MMR. The government should allow those surgeries to provide single vaccines for high risk children, and should instigate more research to identify possible high risk children.

speedymama · 09/11/2005 10:02

Ruty,I'm not insulting and considering the content in some of your posts, you should put your own house in order.

ruty · 09/11/2005 10:07

which posts speedymama? Why are you getting so personal?

ruty · 09/11/2005 10:13

if you don't believe there may be a small minority of children who may be at risk from MMR, fair enough. But why attack those who suspect there might be? I don't think I have claimed anything else. I have called the present system 'callous.' Not 'bereft of common sense and rational debate' not abounding in conspiracy theories. Why rubbish those who have a different opinion to you?

ruty · 09/11/2005 10:18

have to go out now so will wait for assaults on my character until i get back.

baka · 09/11/2005 10:26

speedymama- almost every inheritable trait has a genetic componenet and an environmental componenet. Think of something like PKU- genetic inheritance leads to missing enzyme- special diet = a ok, eating phenylalanine= mental retardation. I don't think anyone working in the field would suggest that the MMR damage is purely environmental. As the Hornig paper showed last year with thimerosal- different genetic backgrounds respond differently to the same environmental factor.

Davros- yes she has and her SIL (or step sister?- it's that srot of relationship- anyway the one with the autistic kid) is a homeopath which is why I suspect they would have been informed about thimerosal etc as well. PMSL at the obsessive questions.

baka · 09/11/2005 10:27

NOt the same choice as everyone else SoupDragon- some people can't afford singles.

baka · 09/11/2005 10:36

oh ruty can I just hijack to ask - when you got ds Sunderland tested did you have to give him gluten beforehand? We're getting ds3 done - can IAG show without a gluten challenge.

PS ds1 got hold of some toast on Sunday- massive bruising to his head has resulted. The effect it has on him is just ridiculous.

ruty · 09/11/2005 10:39

hello baka - glad i saw you before i left! Ds was actually gluten free for a few weeks before test - but it still showed up - Paul Shattock said that meant better to keep him off gluten totally then! Maybe check with paul about getting the clearest result. He was not casein free before the test. Fingers crossed.

Original poster
pfer · 09/11/2005 10:49

Right, this is stupid! . To insult each other just because we don't agree in a subject is ridiculous. We are each entitled to our own opinion and should be allowed to air it in a sensible adult manner. What in God's name are you all doing?

MY opinion is whether Leo had Single or triple vaccinations is irrelevant to some extent. BUT and it's a very big but (a little like my own), if he did have the singles then why? If there is a minority of children that may have an adverse reaction to the MMR then the general public should be made aware of it and given a choice of which way to go with their own kids. IF Leo did have the singles it leads people to think that maybe the government know something they are not telling us. Surely every parent has a right to know if there is a risk for their child? Anyone who thinks otherwise must be crazy.

OP posts:
baka · 09/11/2005 10:49

ok thanks- he's not casein free. Sounds like I may have to challenge him then. Is it the gluten that does the damage, or is the IAG there anyway- (I thought it was as its a byproduct of tryptophan isn't it?) Oh I'm so confused. When we had ds1 done he was eating cheerios until they came out of his ears so was easy!

Original poster
pfer · 09/11/2005 10:50

(I'm on your side by the way Ruty)

OP posts:
ruty · 09/11/2005 10:57

can you give Paul Shattock a quick ring Baka? He might tell you how to get the clearest results. Seems a shame if your ds is already gluten free to start putting it in. But i guess he'll tell you if its necessary. I don't like to hassle him but the one time i've talked to him he was so helpful and friendly.

Davros · 09/11/2005 11:15

I don't think having singles privately is that expensive. £90 each a year apart so £90 a year, its worth it if you feel your child may be at risk. Mind you, I do realise that some people may have to travel a long way, take time off work, get childcare for other kids. But the basic cost is manageable for many.

Original poster
pfer · 09/11/2005 11:24

Davros, the clinic I looked at local to myself charged between £40-£60 depending on which jab it was. As they are so far apart I think we'll get DS2 done in the new year after saving up our Xmas money!

OP posts:
MeAndMyBoy · 09/11/2005 12:14

A local doctor here is charging between £40 and £120 - works out about 350- 400 in total.

MeAndMyBoy · 09/11/2005 12:25

Reading that back it sounds really silly, maybe I have got the maths wrong or I've just not looked far enough yet.

alibubbles · 09/11/2005 12:56

Message withdrawn

MeAndMyBoy · 09/11/2005 13:34

That's awful!! the organisation leaves a lot to be desired. My DH's neice nearly ended up having her booster twice - within about 6 weeks of each other. If SIL hadn't queried it she would have had.

aloha · 09/11/2005 13:36

Speedymama, would your opinion be based on anything other than your own prejudices? Because I can't see anything to back up what you say at all.

baka · 09/11/2005 15:24

The New Scientist article that speedymama links to says "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children, as some claim, but it does show there is no large-scale effect. "

Right so as Wakefiled's hypothesis (and the others working in the field) is that "MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children" (7% of autistic children was the last ball park figure I heard) then Japanese study says bugger all about it. Wakefiled does not think there is a large-scale effect. No-one thinks there is a large scale effect. So the Japanese study showed what exactly?

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