Chickenpox vaccine - yes or no?

[sayitwithme]

Interested in experiences, thoughts or opinions, strong or indifferent, on the concept of vaccinating our kids against chickenpox. I believe it's part of the routine vaccination program in the States. Should it be offered here in the UK? It currently costs around £100 to have the vaccine in the UK - would you pay/have you paid? If not, why not?

Call it a straw poll if you will.

There is no evidence whatsoever that chickenpox immunity from vaccinating wanes. They have been given it for over 25 years and no sign yet of it waning.

Sources bruffin?

Here's one that shows it can wane within 5-6 years. There is also evidence that the vaccine offers longer 'protection' in countries where there is more wild cp circulating because it acts as a natural booster. In countries like the US where there is a high vaccination rate, it seems to be less effective.

Hi bumbleymummy

Worth bearing in mind that paper looks at children considered under-vaccinated by the current vaccine schedule.

Now, children have two injections for varicella.

As to your point about waning, it's difficult to know for certain.
Some peoples immune system have always seemed to need a second bite of the vaccination cherry.

And your point about vaccine immunity being topped up by wild immunity is wel taken.
But applies for wild immunity as well.

What us clear is that the varicella vaccine, given separately or as part of a combination (MMRV) is very safe (even by vaccine standards) and effective.

As the paper you linked to discusses.

I apologise for posting two in a row, especially as I think most others have moved on.

But I thought this recent open access paper was relevant.

Mortality rates in USA from Chicken Pox before and after 1 dose program.

Before 1 dose of the varicella vaccine just over a 100 kids a yr died in the USA from complications of Chicken Pox.

The vaccine seems to have reduced this by 97%.

And that could go even lower with the current 2 dose program.

No need to apologise. Good to give as much info as possible for anyone who stumbles across the thread. V interesting, thanks.

Yes, very interesting. A mass vaccination program for a disease with a fatality rate of 0.41 per million. When people say they weigh up the risk of the disease against the risk of the vaccine I really struggle to see how they come out in favour of the vaccine in this case. From the CDC:

" reports of serious adverse events after vaccination (e.g., seizures, brain infection [encephalitis], pneumonia, loss of balance (ataxia), and severe allergic reactions [anaphylaxis]) have been very rare, occurring in approximately 2.2 for every 100,000 doses given. "

Propaganda is a powerful thing and I know that in the US they used the whole 'cost of caring for your child' as an argument for the vaccine. Now, of course, it is considered a deadly disease.....

There was a 100 lives a year saved,enough said. You seem to forget that the people in those statistics are real people and real parents lost their children.
My son's friend who had a stroke following chicken pox was a real boy, who could lost the use of half side of his body and had to learn to walk and talk again.
The child who had leukhemia who my son nearly infected was a real person, she was 5 and could have died.
The parent in my sons nursery who died from chicken pox was a real person.
.
The numerous adults I know who had chicken pox who were really badly infected were all real people. You cannot guarantee that you will get the disease as a child.

This is my personal experience of chicken pox not some propaganda.

It's not standard here (Belgium) and it's considered a mild, but annoying disease that every child gets at some point. However we are seriously considering vaccination, as I have no immunity to CP (despite being vaccinated twice, once as a baby and once as an adult) and sod's law says DS gets it and passes it on to me when I get pregnant with DC2.

How many deaths and serious injuries did the vaccine cause bruffin? Incidence of 2.2 per 100,000 - they are real people too.

I can find no references to any deaths caused by varicella vaccine

and again you have misquoted the cdc. It actually says that the side effects may not have been caused by the varicella vaccine, these are just events that have followed the vaccine.

"risk of disease against risk of vaccine

TABLE 2
Varicella Disease and Vaccine Fact Sheet*
Disease factor/risk of sequelae Varicella Varicella vaccine

Disease

Average annual number of U.S. cases

3.7 million cases per year in 1980?199040

Efficacious in preventing disease?

Transmission route

Direct contact or airborne spread of respiratory tract secretions; transplacental passage

Transmission rate to susceptible contacts

90% in susceptible household contacts40 ≤30% in classroom contacts41

3 confirmed cases secondary to transmission in immunocompetent persons42

Risk of sequelae

Mortality

94 deaths per year in 1987?199240

14 deaths in 1995?1998?; vaccine not implicated or confirmed as cause42

Localized rash

3% to 5% of vaccine recipients11(pp624?38)

Generalized varicella-like rash

100% of persons with varicella

3% to 5% of vaccine recipients11(pp624?38)

Invasive group A streptococcal disease

5.2 cases per 100,000 varicella cases38§

1 case42

Anaphylaxis

?

30 nonfatal cases42?

Herpes zoster (children under 20 years of age)

68 cases per 100,000 person-years11(pp624?38)

2.6 cases per 100,000 doses11(pp624?38),42?

Thrombocytopenia

1% to 2% of persons with varicella41

0.3 cases per 100,000 doses42?

Arthropathy

?

0.5 cases per 100,000 doses42?

Cerebellar ataxia

1 case per 4,000 varicella cases43

0.4 cases per 100,000 doses41?

Encephalitis

0.1% to 0.2% of persons with varicella43

0.3 cases per 100,000 doses42?

Pneumonia

1 case per 400 varicella cases in adults43

0.2 cases per 100,000 doses42?

Congenital varicella syndrome

0.4% of infants zero to 12 weeks of gestational age who have varicella11(pp624?38),40

No cases in 87 women who received vaccine before or during pregnancy42?

2% of infants 13 to 20 weeks of gestational age who have varicella11(pp624?38),40

*?Data on varicella disease represent reported or estimated disease and sequelae; data on varicella vaccine represent estimated risks.

??The vaccine has an efficacy of 70% to 90%40; it is 95% to 100% effective in preventing moderate to severe disease.11(pp624?38),42

??Based on reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) from March 17, 1995, through July 25, 1998. Data from VAERS do not "prove association of an adverse event with a vaccine, but may prompt "

risk of disease versus vaccine

Bruffin, that is not a misquote - it is a direct copy and paste from the CDC website. "may not be a result of the vaccine" doesnt mean that it wasn't They cant prove that it wasnt related and, if anything, vaccine reactions are under reported. Will look at your figures later - in a rush.

You missed out the important bit! It also doesn't mean it definitely was caused by the vaccine.

Just to put in perspective for you

risk of encephylitis from disease 100 to 200 in a 100,000
risk of encephylitis from vaccination .3 per 100,000

even at the lowest estimate the risk of encephylitis from the disease is 333 times (at the lowest estimate) the risk of the vaccine

Ataxia
20 per 100,000 for the disease
.4 per 100,000 for the vaccine
that is 50 times the risk

Even if you just take these two you would be getting any where between 120 to 220 per 100,000 from the disease as apposed to the total 2.2 per 100,000 from vaccine you are quoting.

death
100 a year from the disease
0 per year from the vaccine

I am seriously thinking of paying for this vaccine for my youngest who has not had chickenpox yet - my older ones have had it and tbh they had it badly, no serious complications luckily, but it ruined a whole Easter for our family!

I wonder why my child suffer 10 days of unbelievably uncomfortable and sore itching, risk of scarring and high temperature when there is a jab to prevent it. Also would have to be dragged on school-run etc, poor thing.

I am very pro-vax though.

Bruffin you are a star for working all this out, as my brain turns to mush whenever I see statistics. Thats helped me make a decision about the CP vaccine x

My middle one has neurodermitis skin so is in a high risk group who needs the V vaccine to prevent complications should she catch it.

Even with the vaccine one may still get CP but it will be less serious and hopefully my LO will not suffer the scarring I did nor be as unwell and in pain.

People may not scar/be that unwell/in pain anyway even without the vaccine.... No way of knowing really...

bumbleymummy - why are you so anti vaccine?

I'm not anti-vaccine. I'm anti-disease-scaremongering :)

I am anti vaccine scaremongering

I don't think there's any need to scaremonger about the CP vaccine - I just think it's unnecessary as a routine vaccination for healthy children.

unlike the USA and other countries who disagree. You can not even get into school in america unless you have been vaccinated.

Yes, the US has a few extra vaccines that we don't think are necessary.

'we' meaning the UK

more like we can't afford.