Chickenpox vaccine - yes or no?

[sayitwithme]

Interested in experiences, thoughts or opinions, strong or indifferent, on the concept of vaccinating our kids against chickenpox. I believe it's part of the routine vaccination program in the States. Should it be offered here in the UK? It currently costs around £100 to have the vaccine in the UK - would you pay/have you paid? If not, why not?

Call it a straw poll if you will.

silverfrog - I commented briefly then hid that thread (I'm pretty sure it's the same one) - far too offensive.

bubblymummy - thats what the literature from the GP told me - that they do have some vaccinated kids who still get CP (my friends little girl had it recently, post vaccination), but that they get a very mild dose.

I wonder whether in time, as the current cohort of vaccinated children move through, we will find its reccommened to have an adult booster to prevent shingles? I know this happens with other vaccines - whooping cough and tetnus for example, so I imagine it wouldn't be a hug prob to give a booster at say 30 years.

I don't think that would necessarily work, astrophe. Shingles is usually the result of the reactivation of the varicella virus that has hidden from the immune system in a nerve (during the first exposure to the virus). It only reactivates when the immune system is in a weakened state, for whatever reason - soooo - a vaccination that relies on the response of the immune system is going to make no difference if the immune system is diminished/out of action.

Adults in other countries are recommended to have boosters to prevent shingles, already (older adults who would have had wild CP as children, I mean).

DH's dad had shingles, in Britain, even with plenty of wild CP about (supposedly), but older or childless people like him don't encounter it much any more (due to quarantine culture, after all). Go back 15 years and People with CP were not quarantined at all (no known risk to pg women back then). So eventually shingles boosters for adults will probably come in here, even if a CP jab for LOs doesn't become routine.

Astrophe - yes I've heard it said before but I actually think it's a fluffier way of saying vaccine failure tbh. If the vaccine works, you shouldn't get cp at all. Some people who are unvaccinated get mild cases too...there's no way of knowing what each individual's case would be like with/without the vaccine. Even if a vaccinated person gets quite a bad case they will probably be told "oh, but it would have been so much worse if you hadn't been vaccinated"

I see what ayou're saying bubblymummy, but I expect they make these claims looking at large numbers of people, not individuals. Of course with an individual you can't know how ill they 'would have been' if they hedn't or had been immunised, but if you're looking at statisitics it will involve 1000s of cases and the trends they see (not that I work for a pharmacuitical co, just what I understand!).

I don't think needing a booster equates to 'vaccine failure' thumb - many vaccines need boosters - whooping cough, tetnus, rubella - I'm sure there are others...

Interesting about the booster and shingles. Do you need to come ^back into contact with CP get shingles, or does it just pop up? I had assumed you need to have contact again. wrong?

I didn't say anything about vaccine failure, astrophe - I said that a vaccine relies on the stimulation/activation of the immune system, and if the immune system fails, then a vaccine is going to have bugger all effect.

Shingles is usually due to the hidden varicella virus being able to reactivate due to immnune suppression for whatever reason - pneumonia can be a good enough reason, as the immune system is busy fighting that off so fails to keep the guard on the varicella virus - so up it pops.

Opinion has been divided as to whether contact with CP invokes shingles - it shouldn't, tbh, but some people say it can.
I asked my haematology consultant about this and she said no, CP exposure does not activate shingles. She had lots of experience with shingles because of the people with leukaemia etc. that she treated every day. But then her field is with immune-suppressed people, so she might have been wrong too.

However, in general, shingles is the result of immune suppression - whether from treatment for other illnesses, severe infective illness - not from secondary CP exposure.

sorry thimb, it was bubbly who mentioned vaccine failure :)

"Just remember sayitwithme Richard Holveson is an ordinery GP who is making a nice living from his Harley Street clinic dishing out single vaccines with business drummed up by his book."

Just one point and sorry to ignore the rest of the thread:

if financial interest is a good reason to ignore advice I think we can safely ignore anything a pharmaceutical company recommends for the rest of our natural lives and beyond until the end of time, the universe and everything.

as you were

If you going to be suspicious of one side of the arguements agenda then you have to be suspicious of all. Why you think big pharma are the only people with money as an agenda.
Richard Halveson is not a vaccine or immunology specialist, he has no specialism other than being a gp and you have to wonder about someone who writes a scaremongering book on vaccine then sets up a clinic to dish out single vaccines.

Richard Halveson has exactly what experience other than being a gp. He seems to have a reputation of cherry picking evidence.

bruffin - again, if you want to be suspicious of one side of the argument, you have to be suspicious of all.

so how come every time this debate comes up, posters are encouraged to "speak to your gp. they know what to do. they have the information" etc.

Halvorsen is a gp. if he happened, by quirk of fate, to be my gp, shoudl I still disregard what he says?

or would it be ok if he was advising me as my gp, but not if I privately consulted him?

he has, and does, recommend the normal vaccine scedule for people who consult him, if that is what he thinks is the right course of action.

he is not looking to make mountians out of molehills.
what he is providing is a space where concerned parents (concerned for various reasons - too much conflicting info, family medical history, history of reaction in the child concerned) can talk things through and hear both sides of the story.

a space where, if a valid concern is raised, it will be listened to.

rather than my experience, where in the same breath that I was told that my dd has a mitochondrial dysfunction (and dd1 has atypical autism - so it is entirely possible that is due to a mito issue) I was told ot stop being ridiculous and just get dd2 jabbed.

I was otld this because, it turns out, the paed was counting on me not knowing what a mitochindrial dysfunction was. and he thought he could railroad me into having her jabs because he, as a "professional person" was advising me to do so.

whe I questioned the wisdom of this, and showed I knew both what the mito dysfunction menat now, and could mean for dd2, he backed right down, sat up and said "of course with a history of autism you do need to be careful" - as though he hadn't known that the history existed (dd1 had been to all appts with us...)

the condescension and dismissal shown to parents is enormous.

if he was out ot just make money, then he would not ever recommned standard jabs. and he does so.

if his views shold not be listened to because he is "only" a gp, then you are dismissing the main branch of advise and support that pro-vaxxers offer to posters who are unsure about vaccination.

Really bruffin? What evidence does he cherry pick?

Good post silverfrog - sorry to x post with you! :)

bruffin -- so first we should ignore anyone who thinks differently to the orthodoxy

then we should ignore anyone with a financial interest

now we should ignore "ordinary" GPs?

the list just gets longer and longer

what about the immunology specialists who agree with people like me? do we have to ignore them too?

do let me know, I'm taking notes

that WOULD be interesting Leonie, I would love to hear what he says

I have had them vaxed. i'm glad i did

Had my dd vaxed, am pleased that I have although did think carefully. Am very much a believer in prevention rather than cure.

It is crazy that it is so difficult to get your child vaccinated in the UK. Its available in Australia and the US so why do UK children miss out and have to suffer and face risks of complications unnecessarily. NHS GPs can't even administer it, even if we purchase the vaccine. I am sure the main reason is £££ and yet in terms of number of workdays lost by parents I am sure the sums would be in favour of making the vaccine available.

I was definitely going to get my son vaccinated privately but unfortunately he caught chicken pox before he was old enough to have the vaccine (you have to be at least 13 months old). It was awful to watch him suffer. Thank goodness he had no complications.
Some people are anti-vaccine in general and that is fine, but when most mum's find out about the CP vaccine they want the choice. I think Mumsnet should start a campaign to let parents know that the vaccine exists and lobby the government to provide parents with the option of vaccinating their children through the NHS. It is currently too expensive and inaccessible for most families. Anyway, too late for my child ....

Would it be possible/practical to have immunity tested as an adult, then have vaccine if necessary? I had cp aged 30, thought I was dying, was ill with other things for ages afterwards. Have been told (not conventional medicine) it may have triggered my MS.

Had my daughter vaccinated, the little one caught chicken pox at age 6 months and again at 2 years, I was glad I just had one sick child...