Chickenpox vaccine - yes or no?

[sayitwithme]

Interested in experiences, thoughts or opinions, strong or indifferent, on the concept of vaccinating our kids against chickenpox. I believe it's part of the routine vaccination program in the States. Should it be offered here in the UK? It currently costs around £100 to have the vaccine in the UK - would you pay/have you paid? If not, why not?

Call it a straw poll if you will.

soozw - the risk of complications with cp is very small. The last thing we need is another vaccine against what is usually a mild childhood illness. There are also concerns that vaccinating against cp will increase the risk of shingles in the elderly.

The financial argument for the cp vaccine in relation to parents having to take time off work actually makes me very sad. Do parents resent looking after their sick children now? I think better allowances for parents who have to take time off for sick children would be more beneficial. They could just as easily get sick with something you can't vaccinate against, or still catch something even though they have been vaccinated.

It may be a minor childhood illness but it is one of the most dangerous to contract when pregnant.

I thank god the vaccine is routinely given where I live as I have no immunity and would have been terrified all through my current pregnancy if I were still in the UK. I could not get vaccinated for it myself as it takes two months (two injections) and another month (guesswork) to leave your system before you can TTC.
No children in our acquaintance have had this illness. But every time I check in with friends in the UK, it seems it is going around.
My sister caught it as an adult in the UK and was hospitalised. Neither of us had it as children even though we were in contact with infected children. My mum thought we must have natural immunity. Unfortunately natural immunity comes up as no immunity when you test before ART. And obviously it did not help my sister in her twenties.

I wouldn't immunise against it. Much better to get it as a child. My mother never had CP as a child so was careful round DP when he had shingles a few years ago. Careful amounted to not giving him hugs or sharing his utensils - something they were unlikely to do anyway!

Mum was keen to avoid contracting it but I wouldn't call her overly concerned.

DP had shingles at the end of a 3 month period of drinking everyday and late nights and travelling, culminating in christmas. It was a wake up call to him to take more care of himself on the road.

"it is one of the most dangerous to contract when pregnant."
Not true. Look at the NHS website here complications from cp are very rare in pregnant women for both mother and baby.

Are you in the US by any chance? There is quite a lot of cp vaccine propaganda there.

Thanks for the link. FVS and the damage to the baby's organs - 2 in 100 babies? I call that dangerous to contract.

Quite rare for a pregnant woman to contract it though - probably because most people in the UK have it is a child so they know they are immune without having to rely on a vaccine that doesn't provide lifelong protection and may not have worked in the first place.

Sister and I had CP in our early twenties and were both fine, if a little itchy.

That link says 3 in 1000 pregnant women will catch it. So, that is 1-2% of their babies, not 2% of all babies.
As Bubbley said, it's rare for a pregnant woman to catch it.

Tabitha, if you check my first post, I mentioned that when my sister caught it in her twenties she was so ill she had to be hospitalised - so although the risk of my catching it might be small statistically, those statistics do take into account people that had it as children, and the possibility of my being very ill with it would be higher as my sister had hideous complications. Add that to the risk to bubs while pregnant and I am heartily glad that children are vaccinated generally (it is optional) where I live.

It should be available in the UK - no one is saying it should be prescribed.
I was thrilled to be able to spare my DD what my sister had suffered.

kiteflying, I don't understand what you mean by " those statistics do take into account people that had it as children,". I don't think seriousness of cp is hereditary either so just because your sister had complications does not mean you are at greater risk of complications. Also, risks of conplications from cp are greater when you are older so one could argue that a more sensible approach is to allow your child the opportunity to catch it as a child (when it is usually uncomplicated) and if she hasn't contracted it by the time she hits her teens (she may be better off with a blood test to confirm because some cases are very mild) you could vaccinate then.

Very apt this popped up in active convos, I'm sitting here with a chicken pox ridden dd2 on my lap.

If you'd asked me the OP after dd1 had it, I would have probably said no. But dd2 has had it really badly - I'm pretty stoic but the pain she's been in has made me cry. She has spots inside her eyelids, her ears (can't even take her temp, but it's raging), inside her mouth, inside her vulva and all around her anus, so she screams in agony when she wees/poos. And that's on top of spots on every square cm of her skin and scalp. She can't eat or sleep and might have horrible scars.

It's bloody barbaric and she shouldn't have to suffer like this.

So yes, vaccinate if you can. I wish I had rather than listening to all the 'but it's a mild illness' bollocks.

Seconding what lukewarmmama said - no child should HAVE to suffer. It is not always a mild illness. Even when it is "uncomplicated"
I only mentioned the statistics, because if you do catch it, and you do suffer horribly - all the statistics can be damned.
I only mentioned my sister's suffering, not because I think it is hereditary but to note that it is not all itchy skin and mild fever.
I only got involved in this thread at all to put the perspective of someone who lives in a country where vaccination is normal, and to say as someone in a vulnerable position (older, no immunity, pregnant) - I am, probably selfishly, glad I live here.

If I were in the UK I would probably have to drag my DD out of all her kindy classes because I just would not risk my baby.

kiteflying, if you knew you weren't immune and are so worried about it then why didn't you have yourself vaccinated before you got pregnant?

lukewarm, sorry that your daughter is so poorly. I hope she feels better soon. The cp vaccine doesn't guarantee protection so even if she had been vaccinated she may have contracted it anyway. She also would have to have boosters to keep up her immunity levels and unless she tested her immunity regularly she would not know for sure if she was immune when she decides to get pregnant etc. I think the vaccine is promoted as an easy solution when it can actually cause more problems and create a false sense of security that can be dangerous.

bumbler - your point also applies to those who have had chicken pox - immunity may not last etc. As I understand, the vaccine increases the chance of the pox being less severe if you do get it later. Which I would welcome with open arms. I can post pictures of my daughter which would make you wince if you need convincing.

Just because something may not be a perfect solution, doesn't mean it's not a better solution.

If you have chickenpox you are very unlikely to catch it again. I think there is a greater chance of catching it a second time if you first have it when you are under 4 - will have a look for figures later - there was a big discussion about it on here not too long ago.....

Not convinced by the 'you'll have it milder' argument - you could have it mildly anyway. It's a nice way to promote it though - and if you are one of the few people who is unfortunate enough to have a severe case then it can always be blamed on vaccine failure....

But if she'd been vaccinated she would in all likelihood not have had to suffer it at all! And she's only 2. A lot/most children have it under the age of 4?

Lukewarm - she may have caught it anyway and most children do not suffer too badly with it. The NHS describe it as 'a mild and common childhood illness'. Of course there can be some severe cases, as there are with any disease but we don't vaccinate against everything.

It's just an increased risk of catching it again if you have it before the age of 4 - they are more likely to catch it a second time. It doesn't mean that every or most children who catch it when they are very young will have it again.

But she did suffer, very badly (as did 2 out of the 3 others I know who have had it at the same time). And the balance of probability with a vaccination is that she wouldn't catch it.

As I say, just because it's not 100% perfect, doesn't mean that it's not a better choice. And I should have had that choice.

Hi - a few years ago I would have saiod no to immunisation for CP. However, DD2 had really nasty secobndary infections in her spots - temp hit 41!! she now has scars all over her trunk - they look like lots of the scars from when I had my TB jab in the 70s. Luckily she didn't end up in hospital, seriously injured or with scars on her face but it wasn't good.

lukewarm, would you rather she had it when she was older and more prone to complications?

Bumbley - yes, I would rather take that very small risk for the almost certainty that she wouldn't get it at all. Balance of probability.

It's not a small risk lukewarm - the cp vaccine provides temporary immunity - she would have to have boosters for the rest of her life and even then she wouldn't be sure she was immune unless she had her immunity levels checked regularly. Also worth noting that the vaccine is less effective in adults so it is less likely that those booster will protect her when she is more vulnerable. Much easier to just think of the short term though isn't it?

I don't see the problem with having to have regular boosters? We do for other things, it's not a hassle. People who have had chicken pox don't know they are immune either, si that's a nul point. And I'm not thinking just of the short term, I'm thinking of the definite risks of definitely having chicken pox now, versus the smaller (yes they are statistically smaller) risk of possibly contracting it later in life. It's just simple maths, not short termism.

I'm giving up now. I respect other peoples right not to vaccinate (although I don't like it much, dd2 having caught rubella when she was 10 months old, with a good chance it was from someone who chose not to give the mmr to their kids). It would be nice if the respect for the right to choose was reciprocated from those more fixed in their beliefs.

Not a problem if people actually do get them and get them before their immunity wanes (which would require regular blood tests). I don't know any adults going for boosters for anything tbh.

Not sure what you mean by statistically smaller risk of catching when you are older - fewer people catch it when they are older because they're immune to it from having it as a child! You are more likely to be immune from having the disease than from the vaccine - that is basic math.

Also, what is your issue with catching rubella as a child? Both mine caught it before they were a year old and we didn't even know DS2 was ill until the rash came out! At least now your DD has lifelong immunity and won't have to worry about it when she is pregnant. BTW she could just as easily have caught it from someone who is no longer immune because they were vaccinated as a child and their vaccine immunity has waned...