Help me make sense of MMR - hype or theory

[felicity10]

OK, so I've been through a few pages of previous posts, I must be missing something because I can't make sense of it!

DD is 1 and I've had a letter about the vacs from the GP. I've heard about the MMR in the news few years ago and about the link to autism, but I just would really value your views.

Single vacs with no mumps or the MMR? Can anyone point me in the direction of key MMR issues?

I just don't want to get to the gp's and then feel like I am getting bullied into having the mmr - it is normally very no nonsense nurses who barely speak english, so will be unlikely to give me a clear answer as to any risks.

I am amazed that we have this lack of clarity in the UK.

Many thanks in advance!

Two points responding to things up thread - "They won't publish it because it's against their shareholders interest."
There are more publishers than elsevier-even than elsevier and Macmillan. They would love to publish well good quality controversial research that would get referenced in lot of other papers and boost their impact factor.

On elsevier being part of a conspiracy. Having had dealings with them I would question their ability to deliver anything as complex as a conspiracy.

While I'm certainly not laughing about sick children, guess who thinks it's funny

Shit. This is the man of integrity???? I haven't sworn yet but for fuck's sake.

Leonie - Have you been to the root of that website and seen the list of topics?

It doesn't exactly fill one with confidence about their editorial policies.

HEy Leonie.

just wondered if you can reiterate your policy on vaccines. Tell me if this is correct

Vaccines need to be 1000% safe as they are given to healthy children? Apart from rabies vaccines of course

No scientific evidence will ever convince you to vaccinate since all scientific evidence is corrupted and/or ghostwritten?

It is better for the immune system to be unvaccinated.

Just want to clarify.

It's good to know thought that the author is "far and away the best writer on medical politics in the UK alive today, notable for his integrity, great insight, cutting sense of humour and exhaustive, well referenced research. Medical investigative journalism and writing at its best, something that left the media decades ago"

And is a trained Graphic Designer.

He really should get that website to employ him for some graphic design as well.

And turns out that Wikipedia are also in on the grand vaccine conspiracy

"The Allopath editors, who control Wikipedia, hate his work, obviously, and on the second attempt deleted his page (ref), yet comparatively inconsequential namesakes, one a director of Hull City football club (ref) and another a reporter (ref) are granted Wiki pages! Something to bear in mind when they conjure up fatuous excuses to delete pages they don't like.]"

This is exactly what I meant when I said that if you do have genuine concerns that you want taken seriosuly, drop the Wakefield stuff. It's a liability.

I know that Leonie. I never thought otherwise. I've actually always admired you for at least being consistent and not pretending that you're not anti-vax. you've always said that there's a conspiracy. The comment was really for those who say they're not anti-vax and that they just want their concerns addressed.

And you've also been consistent about your thoughts of the relevance and worthlessness of medical or scientific education.

But given your interest in Wakefield, what do you think of this? Do you find it offensive in any way?

Huh, so you didn't like that clip then. You think that kind of behaviour is OK?

And as for high horses...

Apart from the fact that it's unethical, you don't think that laughing at children fainting and vomiting is in the least offensive?

Yes, you are. You're definitely what you say on the tin.

And on the same subject, could you answer these questions on where you stand on vaccines leonie?

Vaccines need to be 1000% safe as they are given to healthy children.

No scientific evidence will ever convince you to vaccinate since all scientific evidence is corrupted and/or ghostwritten

It is better for the immune system to be unvaccinated.

This Martin Walker does seem to be one of the saner people on that site:-
"[There are vast deposits of oil (1), and it self-replenishes. Peak Oil (it is going to run out) is a lie. And then they have had absolutely free energy (eg Joe Cell), Tesla type technology for decades, probably over a 100 years, after all, they have plenty of silent invisible flying craft they got from various Aliens and the Nazis (see: William Lyne), which sure as hell don't run on oil! Then numerous inventors have run cars on Air, Electricity, water, while the Pogue carburettor in 1935 got 130 miles per gallon! (see: Free Energy conspiracy). And numerous inventors Assassinationated, one Steven J. Smith, just recently (Oct 2010).]"

Yes, but you see I've never particularly liked journalists. It doesn't mean that they're not journalists. I can happily say that Brian Deer wasn't nice to those parents. He doesn't have to be. So he's not a nice person [shrug]

But you've all lionised St Andy. And he's a doctor (well, he was then). I have much higher expectation of the professional behaviour of a doctor.

And the screams of 'offensive' are still trailing throughout the whole thread, mainly aimed at me, and espeically because of a youtube post ridiculing the claims of the anti-vax brigade.

I'm just curious if your same standards of offence taking are uniformly applied.

Oh, OK, I see now. Thanks for explaining Leonie. St Andy thought that laughing at vomiting and fainting children was appropriate since he was exaggerating for effect. He didn't actually think it was funny and the gales of laughter in the audience were just for effect as well.

Right. Gotcha. So that's not offensive in any way. And if i think it is, then I'm completely thick.

Thanks for clearing that matter up.

So,all your folks who are not anti-vaxers, agree or disagree with Leonie? Would you agree that Leonie is indeed one of the elusive anti-vaxers.

Is she right?

Vaccines need to be 10000% safe. In other words, vaccins will never be acceptable.

Lots of scientific evidence is corrupt and/or ghostwritten

It is better for the immune system to be unvaccinated.