To be surprised how many threads on here are about …

[Ednasharples]

Labour making a hash of things. It’s like we are living in a weird kind of masochistic Stockholm syndrome. Most of us are experiencing the reality of broken Tory Britain, where nothing works (unless you live in a very well off area I guess) but we’re being gaslit that everything is hunky dory.
I listened to Oliver Dowden literally shouting over the interviewer on LBC this morning, telling us how taxes will shoot up within 6 months of KS being PM, how British children are the best readers in the universe, how Rishi single handedly brought down inflation (but funnily enough had nowt to do with it going up). I read on here that Labour hate women, hate rich people, hate aspiration, and will raise the red flag over Buckingham palace after Starmer has been overthrown by Corbyn.

It’s like the country is facing an existential threat to its survival if Labour win despite Tory Brexit, Tory austerity, Tory cronyism, life expectancy falling because of a whole scale drop in living standards, children becoming fatter and sicker. It’s just all very odd and I’m struggling to understand it …

We don't know this though do we.. we don't know until we give them a chance to try
No point just sitting there going 'ooh they're all awful'

YANBU. It's like people have forgotten how much mess Tories has caused. Sunak is suddenly knight in shining armour for the women in th UK when all this time he did nothing.

Then why don't you talk about how bad Tories are?

Your post is a grand example of this as its focused on how shit the Conservatives are, not his great Labour is.

But so many recent threads are about how bad labour is not about how great alternative is.

Yes but you are not saying who is the answer in your view. What's the point 0f spreading hate about labour? Do you want anyone but labour?

I think we probably need to be understanding.

People who believe in Conservative ideology have seen what 14 years of it has done to this country and they're having feelings about it.

A lot of them are currently stuck at "Denial".

@shellyleppard

Oh yes they can. it worries me that people seem unable to understand what Starmer is NOT saying.

He's saying they're not going to put up income tax, but people don't consider what taxes/duties etc he IS going to put up.

He is U turning all over the place.

His piffle about the EU.

And yeah.

I've seen quite a few posts getting large events in fairly recent British political history wrong. Stuff you can't imagine someone that lives here would get wrong.

Like talking about the 2020 General Election.

(I know, I sound a bit paranoid...!)

Yes, it's so odd. So many seem to believe that a Labour government means an imminent Gilead for women, or possibly hijabs - depending on who's moaning at the time. But absolutely spoiling your ballot is a sensible move: if you think you're going to lose your voice, don't raise it in the first place! I'm having trouble understanding the logic of putting pretty stickers on a ballot and thinking that's a strong protest. It's just not.

I could actually cry about the damage the Tories have done.

They keep shouting 'TAX CUTS!!' but can't or won't accept that to the average person a tax cut is worth a few hundred pounds and the affect on their life is marginal. £300 in my pocket won't get me a GP appointment or a police officer to turn up when I need one. They refuse to acknowledge that the average person is happy to pay more tax so that we pool our resources to get better public resources like we used to have. £300 has minimal impact on my life, but better schools for my kid or the police turning up when I need them impacts my quality of life immeasurably. Billionaires like Sunak will never relate, which is why he needs to fuck off and never should have been made PM. I guess we have learned why investment bankers make appalling PMs.

I've always thought that as a middle earning person it doesn't really matter to me who is in power so I will always vote about things such as the environment, who is not racist, etc, but these guys have changed all that. I've never voted Tory, but their record has made me feel like voting against them is an actual emergency. Recent interactions in my life:

Probate registry didn't reply to my email or my follow up email for three months. Only replied (the very next day!) when I submitted a formal complaint. When I managed to speak to an actual human they said they only action things when someone complains.

I emailed a court admin 'helpline' for admin help and they didn't reply. Emailed again two months later and still haven't had a reply six months later

Tried to buy a certificate from a .gov website. It didn't go through. Was told need to phone their helpline. As you can imagine: three weeks and five phone calls later, no certificate and I've given up. Will have to lose out on what I was trying to do. It's impossible. And what I was trying to do was pretty fucking important, but I've hit a brick wall.

I called the police for a welfare check for a patient. Was assured a police officer would call me back that day. They never did. That was four months ago.

Also, non-government interactions are crap too. Pretty sure it's because of the new culture this government has bred that profit is all important and the people don't matter. Impossible to talk to a person. Companies make it impossible to find a number to speak to a person. When you do find a number there are infinite options on the phone line, usually ending to a dead end. Sometimes they promise you will speak to a person but you're left hanging on the line then get cut off.

You just feel so helpless in Tory Britain. I hate it so much!

Labour have been Conservatives Lite since Blair’s leadership. The party has never recovered.

Sunak's expensive lawyers would never need to phone the probate helpline or need to gird his loins to apply for the certificate I needed to. So of course he thinks England is doing fine as per his Laura Kuenssberg interview this morning 🤔

😡

What about Corbyn?

It's because the last 14 years of turkeys voting for Christmas has shown that people do not want socialism, so the Labour party have watered themselves down to the extent that they are reduced to just indicating what they will do. And what they will do is just centrist stuff.

Austerity has been a complete failure. Cutting local authority funding meant massive cuts to social care, youth facilities and playgrounds etc. (all while cynically hoping we’d blame our councils) not to mention cuts to all other public services (police, education, nhs, prisons ..) to the point where it feels like nothing works. Osborne could have borrowed at historically low rates but chose not to. It also meant our covid preparedness was poorer - not helped by the useless Johnson in charge. So so much the Tories messed up - and hard to see that Labour would have made the same choices.

I’m worried a bout Labour getting in. I don’t trust them on a range of issues.

We’ve faced some awful times recently many beyond any governments control - pandemic, Ukrainiane, fuel prices, inflation, Brexit - the tories didn’t want it (the pm Cameron was a remainder, Corbyn was neutral) but had to deliver it (which was always going to be a bad deal). I look around the western world and see all countries facing the same challenges. I don’t subscribe to British exceptionalism which these days leads people to think that things are uniquely bad here.

I don’t trust Labour to protect women. I think lowering the voting age to 16 is deeply cynical and ill advised (I have met 16 year olds!). I don’t like it he sneering, class war aspect of Labour and the desire to level down. They are anti-aspiration.

none of this is praise of the tories, just why I dislike Labour.

I am a normal person, not a bot before anyone accuses me of such. (Everyone posting a criticism of Labour is accused of somehow lying, it’s all part of the arrogance and self-righteousness)

how on earth can you not blame them???? They’ve been in poor for 14 years! 😳

This.

People have short memories too.

Why was austerity decided as necessary? Was it because of financial mismanagement of the country? Did a Labour minister leave a note saying 'theres no money left?'

It begs a lot of questions.

But not only that the Conservatives and Labour don't appear to be economically worlds apart in their manifesto. Where they differ more is on social issues.

My problem is I don't trust either.

We need to pay more tax if we want to undo the damage of austerity. Simple.

They’ve been in power having taken on an economy that had been wrecked by Labour, and then had a series of dire global events to deal with - the same as all countries.

The 2008 bankers crash - helped in large part by Sunak in his previous role as an investment wanker. 🙄

And none of the parties are being honest about the nhs, including Labour.

Also I don't think the Labour civil war has played out fully yet.

Starmer isn't addressing issues preelection that he should.

He's actively playing both sides on a number of issues. This was a tactic of Leave. Then reality struck and there was a whole lot of fall out from promising multiple contrary things to multiple groups. It doesn't sit well with me.

I'm no Tory (I'm a LibDem!) but many of the issues the Tories faced (apart for Brexit) are global macroeconomic issues.

Indeed.

My long-term fear is Labour can't possibly deliver. What happens then?

In a first past the post system, we are vulnerable to an 'anti establishment' vote. Indeed we've already had one.

All you need is a party standing in the wings ready to take advantage of that.

Look at France.

What do you think will happen in 5 years time. Starmer needs to heed warnings NOW to avoid the scenario I fear in 5 years time.

That's ultimately why I am critical of Labour.

Not because I'm anti Labour and pro Tory. It's because I'm anti Reform and I can see the dangers ahead of not recognising political pitfalls.

Ignore at your peril. I don't want to be having the conversation I fear in 5 years time.