To be surprised how many threads on here are about …

[Ednasharples]

Labour making a hash of things. It’s like we are living in a weird kind of masochistic Stockholm syndrome. Most of us are experiencing the reality of broken Tory Britain, where nothing works (unless you live in a very well off area I guess) but we’re being gaslit that everything is hunky dory.
I listened to Oliver Dowden literally shouting over the interviewer on LBC this morning, telling us how taxes will shoot up within 6 months of KS being PM, how British children are the best readers in the universe, how Rishi single handedly brought down inflation (but funnily enough had nowt to do with it going up). I read on here that Labour hate women, hate rich people, hate aspiration, and will raise the red flag over Buckingham palace after Starmer has been overthrown by Corbyn.

It’s like the country is facing an existential threat to its survival if Labour win despite Tory Brexit, Tory austerity, Tory cronyism, life expectancy falling because of a whole scale drop in living standards, children becoming fatter and sicker. It’s just all very odd and I’m struggling to understand it …

No it wasn’t. The last time we were in a place like this was when Thatcher won in 1979 and however much you detested her - and I really did - she gave us political stability for over a decade. As did Biair. That’s what we need now and there’s no reason why we can’t have another stable government for a decade or so.

I said to DP earlier, there are loads of Tory bots on MN at the moment.

I think it’s a sign that, despite the mess the country is in, Labour have not managed to sell themselves as a positive alternative, with a clear and positive plan to improve things. Which is quite remarkable when you think about it. We are living in a time of astonishing failure of both government and opposition.

Your post is a grand example of this as its focused on how shit the Conservatives are, not his great Labour is.

I think it’s a sign of how ground down and hopeless people feel. They’ve just given up hope.

You see I think it would have been different!

No way would Starmer have been on holiday & missed the first Covid COBRA meetings.

I think the feel of Govt will be really different.

I hope someone will chuck that bloody lectern in a skip first thing Friday morning! 🤣

They won't spunk millions & billions on hair brain scenes like Rowanda or the Bibby Stockholm.

I don't expect things to change overnight but I think there will be a change for the better!

'Because that’s what always happens. Hence the old adage that oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. This one appears to be going for the biggest loss in history.'

I was going to say just like the England Team! We are never beaten, we always just lose but they seem to have pulled it out of the bag right at the last minute!

Absolutely right.

I'm voting Labour and happy to be doing so. Ours is a safe labour seat anyway.

No one is saying all problems will instantly be solved, or ever solved,

It's just a different vibe with Labour. A serious government with intent who won't be lurching us from one crisis to another.

We can get back to what politics is supposed to be about - not the utter madness of the last 8 years.

When politics works, it's boring. When it's on the media every day, it's failing

If I want to be entertained I'll go to the theatre

Just out of interest, why do you NOT blame the Tories for the state of the country? They have been in power for 14 years.
Do you think "it's just the way it is"? Or do you think somebody else is to blame? Surely somebody has to take responsibility? Who do you think is to blame?

They can’t win essentially. Bold big plans = expensive, magic money tree. Typical labour spaffing money against the wall.
More financial restraint = lack of aspiration. No decent ideas. Uninspired. Same as the Tories.

@viktoria ive had a long hard think about this and I too don’t blame the tories. I did at various times in the last decade.

but the Ukraine war, Covid, financial issues, Russia, the boats, Gaza etc. would labour have done better?

will never know for sure but I doubt they would have done much different. It’s been very tough times.

labour needed to be clear about women… after all half the country are women. And they needed to have a clear better plan. Sadly they failed to convince me.

Rock <🤔> Hard place

Edit: had no idea that you could cross out an emoji.

You forgot Brexit. Huge shot in the foot.
Austerity. Again self inflicted and very much hit the poorest areas.
Corruption and cronyism. Billions wasted.
Promises to leave the ECHR. Massive attack on our human rights.
Essentially you are letting them off the hook. Tories have also treated women disgracefully but you are aren’t convinced by Labour’s stance on gender issues. There’s a bit of an imbalance there I think and head in the sand.

One thing you haven't mentioned, which is well and truly down to the Tories, is Brexit

Before you say about the other issues, I will add, "Not all problems were created by Brexit- however Brexit has made them all worse"

I agree with @Ocymoroniclife with your post entirely. I’ve never known such a crop of inadequate and uninspiring politicians. Also why the accusation of Tory “bots” I know loads of people who genuinely don’t know how to vote and they are in despair at most of them and their thin policies.

This website is weird that way for sure OP. Everywhere else you look irl on the radio on telly no one wants Tories any more. The Times is even publishing a schedule of when to watch on Thursday to see the big tory names losing their seats live. It's not even a point of discussion anywhere apart from mumsnet.

Many people voted Brexit because they felt everything was shit and hoped for something/anything better. Unfortunately that didn’t work out for them. People will vote Labour/Reform for the same reason. God hope it’s better than Brexit

I was worried about brexit. I recognized that I couldn’t do anything about it but I was worried about what would happen.

same as people are concerned about a Labour government. Because it’s change and the unknown. Although there is very little difference in policy between labour and the conservatives anyway

I agree that brexit was a bad idea but ultimately people voted for it in a referendum. So you can’t entirely blame the tories.

as for the rest, austerity would have been required after the last labour government no matter what - because the last labour government massively overspent. And they also pretty much promised to match the tories spending plans at the time (and the austerity government was a coalition with the lib dems).

As for corruption- there is plenty in all political parties and governments. See SNP in Scotland for example. The “promise” to leave the ECHR is only if it rules against the sending of asylum seekers to a third country.

the tories have finally got on board with women’s rights tho. That’s a big vote winner for me

I think this^ is a very good point. No one says that Labours are perfect. I personally don’t agree with them 100% and I’m going to vote for them. But it doesn’t look like Conservatives can offer something and whatever they are saying they’ve had long time in office and a big majority, in a way they didn’t use wisely.

For all the stick the SNP are getting, buying caravans is nothing compared to the lock stock and barrel raid that the Tories have carried out on UK public finances. Johnson sold London to Putin &co years ago when he was mayor and now him and all the rest have divvied up our national wealth and infrastructure. Never mind cooking the books, those bastards have bloody robbed us.

I think they're all awful. Labour will just be a new kind of awful.

You can absolutely blame them for Brexit! Cameron caved to the Eurosceptics and set up the referendum! Who else is to blame?!

You can absolutely blame them for Brexit! Cameron caved to the Eurosceptics and set up the referendum! Who else is to blame?!

100% agree

You can blame them for austerity as well. Interest rates were rock bottom for years. Had they invested instead of cutting, we'd be in a much stronger position by the time they went back up again. Massive global crash + no interest payable to speak of = the absolute best point in time to invest as much as you can where you can.

Which most of the cabinet did of course, in terms of their personal wealth portfolios. And then to really make as much as they possibly could individually, they brought in Brexit. Rees-Mogg, Johnson and all the rest are sitting on millions extra thanks to that.