To be surprised how many threads on here are about …

[Ednasharples]

Labour making a hash of things. It’s like we are living in a weird kind of masochistic Stockholm syndrome. Most of us are experiencing the reality of broken Tory Britain, where nothing works (unless you live in a very well off area I guess) but we’re being gaslit that everything is hunky dory.
I listened to Oliver Dowden literally shouting over the interviewer on LBC this morning, telling us how taxes will shoot up within 6 months of KS being PM, how British children are the best readers in the universe, how Rishi single handedly brought down inflation (but funnily enough had nowt to do with it going up). I read on here that Labour hate women, hate rich people, hate aspiration, and will raise the red flag over Buckingham palace after Starmer has been overthrown by Corbyn.

It’s like the country is facing an existential threat to its survival if Labour win despite Tory Brexit, Tory austerity, Tory cronyism, life expectancy falling because of a whole scale drop in living standards, children becoming fatter and sicker. It’s just all very odd and I’m struggling to understand it …

What you forget @Clavinova is that it’s all political mudslinging to you, a game. I remember being so upset & cross at the time as I had a recently widowed parent who we had to leave entirely alone, following the rules the Government had set. The Tories really let down the country with their partygate antics and suitcases of wine smuggled into Downing Street when we were in a national crisis. I’m sure there are many other voters like me who haven’t forgotten their actions either.

@Fightthepower exactly. The ardent supporters on here have quietly forgotten all this. Sorry your parent had to deal with this in isolation. I worked in crit care throughout. I remember caring for one patient in her 30s who sadly died leaving behind a 10 year old boy. He spent probably ten minutes with her at the end because of the rules. Absolutely hypocritical disgusting behaviour from our government but sadly only to be expected.

@Ednasharples that is so heartbreaking for that family. It really was the worst of times in living memory for the country.

Thank you for all that you and your colleagues do for your patients. Hopefully under a new Government the NHS and its staff will be re-prioritised.

The issue as I see it is that Labour are going to have a significant majority, but only because the Tories have made such a hash of things. People are voting not to have a Conservative Government, rather than voting to have a Labour one. Sir Kier has one of the lowest popularity rating of any incoming Prime Minister - even Ed Miliband was rated higher back in 2015

The other thing that troubles people is that Labour hasn't really shown their senior team in public. No incoming Government has ever censored it's own team as heavily as Labour. They have only really exposed 3 of their senior team to the public and press - Sir Kier Starmer, Rachel Reeves and Wes Streeting. That inevitably breeds distrust. Which is underlined by their reticence to commit on anything. It also doesn't help that Sir Kier doesn't debate well - he isn't quick on his feet, which is odd for a good KC, and quickly gets petulant and grumpy under pressure.

As a result of their shockingly low approval rating I think the public and press will be intolerant of any failure to do what they have promised - which is a problem as a key plank of their plan is growth to fund increased spending, and yet they can't control growth in the short term or, really, in the medium/long term either.

You forgot to add in your opinion he doesn’t debate well- I thought he came across well on the Sky debate in particular. Sunak in contrast is always het up and pretty cross about something.

It's Keir not Kier

You also seem to have missed the debates with Angela Rayner

Possibly just my opinion, but commentators on Radio 4, Times Radio and CNN have said the same. He takes too long to get to the point, and meanders. Funnily enough Tony Blair was a far better politician than barrister, but Sir Kier, who is widely considered to be a good barrister, comes across poorly as a politician. Is there anyone who don't know his father was a tool maker...? ;)

Yes. My mother in law spent 3 months alone dying of cancer. My ex husband and his family (including FIL) didn't see her until the night she passed. My children didnt see her at all in that period. They didn't get to spend precious time with someone they loved dearly. Shortly after she died the Dominic Cummings story broke.
I know this kind of story is not unusual. Yet we are now meant to pretend that real human suffering never happened and the Tories just acted like everyone else.

It makes me almost unspeakably angry.

Fuck the lot of them. I hope they get obliterated.

This is true and there seems to be in many countries a move away from democracy. A key part of democracy is the right to criticise and debate ALL sides.

I think the UK has gone downhill under the Tories, yes, do I think it was all their fault? No. Covid caused havoc in most countries. Did the Tories handle it badly - well lots of things were dire like PPE and Boris's parties (which he should have been prosecuted for IMO) but the vaccine roll out was brilliant so it was mixed. Personally I think it would have been less devastating if they'd followed the same sort of policies as S Korea but to not acknowledge that part of the problems we're facing now were down to Covid is just not realistic..

Most people seem to think the choices are poor this election. I hope many more independents will get in, and SDP candidates as they are a party whose manifesto is closest to what I'd like to see.

I think Labour will get in but only because people are voting against the current state of the country, which is similar to what happened in Brexit. Labour have not provided a convincing positive message and they're really tone deaf on a lot of things voters want. They don't listen well to the populace, which is worrying for democracy. I don't think they have a realistic plan to solve the problems this country has. I do think they could quite conceivably make things worse for the majority, but I guess we'll see. However it's critical for people to be able to debate these issues and not just in black and white terms like the media pushes.

Being anti-Labour doesn't mean you're pro-Tory. Look at where a polarised political system has ended up in the US. I think most people in this country aren't idiots and are capable of nuanced debate and most people have some things they agree with the Tories on and some things they agree with Labour or other parties on - to a far greater extent than. either the media or the politicians think or allow and I think that's bad for democracy.

I actually think Labour listen less to the populace than the Tories. The Tories listen and then ignore what people are saying in favour of their mates, Labour don't even listen and stick their fingers in their ears. I don't think they want to hear from normal people.

Yes, the Toolmaker thing is a bit funny now but Sunak says the same about his Pharmacist parent!

Part of the reason why there are so many comments about Labour is precisely because they're expected to be the next government. It makes more sense to analyse and criticise those who will actually hold power than those who won't.

In many ways Labour don't seem ready to govern. e.g. https://www.ft.com/content/e4c190b0-cc4e-4dc4-945b-9f680ce1c67f

I do think Labour are more likely to do a good job if they're held to account, so it's important for people to be allowed to criticise and debate their policies. Where political parties suppress criticism and free speech it rarely ends well.

Just to add, one of the things the government did do wrong was the rules about end of life during covid. The people who implemented such insanely inhumane rules should be prosecuted IMO. This is why we need people to criticise and freedom of speech, there is no chance of people being held to account if criticism is suppressed.

So its is. Apologies. What an impact Sir Keir has made ;)

I am sure you will get the hang of spelling his name correctly soon

Labour gets in people will complain they would have been better under Conservatives, if Conservatives remain in they will say Labour should have got in

Whoever gets in people won't say they voted for them

It has been the same for the last few hundred years and will be same for the next few hundred years, people will constantly complain

@ActivePeony

"Being worried about a Labour govt does not mean you are happy with the Tories though does it?"

Absolutely and which is why this Friday there will be a Labour Government.

I just hope people manage their expectations on how things will be for the next 5 years.

@Edingril

And people will always expect the Government to spend more on services that benefit them so long as they don't have to pay for it.

Undoubtedly. As there's nothing the left like to do more than correct people...it makes them feel good about themselves for some reason. Compensating for something I am sure ;)

That didn’t happen in 1997. There were a lot of jubilant people who were very proud of voting Labour and who put their money where their mouth was at the following two elections. So, no, it hasn’t been the same for a few hundred years.

@BIossomtoes

"That didn’t happen in 1997. There were a lot of jubilant people who were very proud of voting Labour and who put their money where their mouth was at the following two elections. So, no, it hasn’t been the same for a few hundred years."

Sure there were a lot of people very happy about increased levels of Government spending from 1997 to 2010.

However it was funded through increased levels of Government debt which went from 35% of GDP to 70% of GDP in 2010. Since 2010 to today it has increased to nearly 100%.

We now pay roughly the same amount in interest payments as we do on the education budget.

Everyone is happy whilst spending money on their credit card, it's receiving the bill and having to pay it back that they don't like.

It’s obviously time to post my favourite chart again.

@BIossomtoes

Maybe a favourite chart but a misleading chart nonetheless.

It shows absolute levels of debt rather than debt to gdp as a percentage which is much more relevant. A billion pound debt is 1900 is clearly much more significant than a billion pound debt in 2024 because of inflation.

This chart shows debt increasing from 35% in 1997 to 70% in 2010 to 80% in 2019 and after the Covid spending to 100% today.