Labour hate people like me

[Meadowtrees]

I feel sick at the thought of how much our lives are going to change.

This is not a thread to bash or criticise people nervous about Labour. It’s a place for those of us who are feeling very anxious to have a bit of space - it’s not something we are ‘allowed’ to say in public without being called ‘scum’ ‘selfish tories’ or similar. I’m not particularly linked to any party and not sure how to vote, I may spoil my ballot.

Labour have made it very clear that they intend to make us poorer and our lives harder.
I’m a woman - Labour intend to remove women’s rights
I’m rural - Labour aren’t interested in rural areas
I work in a private school - enough said
I have teens - I expect Labour to put vat on uni fees
We both work full time and have slogged our guts out to now be in a position where we have a comfortable (but not high) income - I expect to be taxed more heavily.
We have elderly parents - I expect the cost of care and inheritance tax to increase.

Maybe it’s selfish but we’re screwed and I don’t expect that what we lose will be put to efficient or good use. It feels like we will be punished for having worked hard and being ambitious.

It means Labour MPs are very much like everybody else. That Angela Raynor will work with people in her own party who are very much like the people on here who send their kids to private schools - with a difference of opinion on private schools and fiscal policy, presumably, but otherwise very similar.

My opinions are not based on anything I hear or read from the MSM, or social media or any other source

Unless you literally turn your back on every news source, that’s impossible. And if you do, what evidence do you have for your opinions? Anyone who pretends that their opinion isn’t influenced by external sources has zero credibility.

I disagree with you that I have zero credibility, I do not read or watch/listen to MSM or use Facebook etc - I do speak and contact MP's and other local politicians - I like to gain my information from face to face interaction and discussions rather than twitter or facebook. Add that to experience of governing parties from previous years and I feel it gives me a good insight into how I form my opinions. To me it is a positive that I am not influenced by certain sources, it is far too easy to be carried along on a tide of the "correct" opinions rather than form ones own.

I do speak and contact MP's and other local politicians

Oh well, bound to be unbiased sources then.

So then who do you get your info from who is completely unbiased? Everyone in the world is biased one way or another. You are calling other people out so tell me how you are the bastion of truth.

So, what's been so great for you these past 14 years that you'll miss OP?

I didn’t say I was a bastion of truth. I collect my information from as wide a range of sources as I can - mainstream media across the spectrum, social media, podcasts. I’m a newshound and political nerd, always have been.

It's probably the Brexshit debacle, or maybe the Trussterfuck, or maybe the highest taxes in 70 years, or maybe it was the lies during covid, or handing contracts to their mates. I think that's what's been really great 🤦‍♂️

Which is pretty much what PP said yet you scoff at their info. So basically anyone who has a different opinion to you has been duped or brainwashed by biased media etc but you are unbiased and listen to outlets which only speak the truth?

Which is pretty much what PP said yet you scoff at their info.

No it’s not. She said My opinions are not based on anything I hear or read from the MSM, or social media or any other source

That’s pretty much the opposite. And no outlet tells the truth - you read what they say, process it and decide where you think the truth lies.

happiest sleeping
Labour really did choose the wrong Milliband brother

Absolutely. I believe the UK would be a very different place today had that disastrous decision not been taken. I always thought that David would re-enter domestic politics but that seems vanishingly unlikely now. Such a shame for everyone.

Xsnsnshsjs

Sorry, no idea how I quoted you above, didn’t intend to 🤷‍♀️

You will be punished for working hard and being ambitious.

Seems people who vote Labour to get rid of the Tories think swapping the plague for cholera is a good idea.

Before you bash me, I was born and raised in a communist country with slogans about equity in our commie/ socialist paradise everywhere.

(they used socialism and communism interchangeably- as good little Marxists they knew we could only ever aspire to ‘real’ communism).

Socialism always wants to get people hooked on the state - state dependency ensures compliance.

As my grandfather found out after commiting wrongthink (joined the opposition and listened to an opposition radio station - a neighbour grassed him up). His job and home were taken from him and his family with nowhere to turn to (private enterprise was banned, so the state was the only employer).

The truth was, we were all s***d. From birth to grave. Only party members and their friends/families were ok. And perhaps some people of certain backgrounds used rather tokenistically every now and then to put on a poster and push whatever was the current slogan/aim/narrative.

Also, nobody whose ancestors owned any land or had a business could go to university. The result is that long after the communism fell, we don’t have any real intellectual elite in my home country and are far behind on innovation etc. Because for decades we promoted people based on their socioeconomic background and not their abilities and talent. We killed meritocracy and everyone is still paying the price. The mediocre people promoted decades ago are too scared of promoting real talent so the talented ones keep leaving resulting in a massive brain drain.

I know this all sounds extreme now but give it 10 years. The net tax contributors will start leaving in droves and we’ll be taxed more and more to fund the ever expanding social welfare bill and the premature ambitious net zero targets.

Net zero targets today are what used to be called planned economy in my home country. The party decided what was economically important. Did not end well.

Never thought that after being born in a socialist hell paradise, I’d move to the West only to die in another.

Never thought that after being born in a socialist hell paradise, I’d move to the West only to die in another.

Good news for you then - you’re in no danger of that because the current iteration of the Labour Party is the least socialist and most centrist we’ve ever had.

Let’s wait and see then shall we? The fact that it’s going to take 10-15 years under Starmer rather than 3 years under Corbin doesn’t change the end outcome.

Do you mean Corbyn? Who’s no longer even a member of the Labour Party? The last Labour government had 13 years and guess what? Didn’t happen.

Yes, Corbyn.

Blair with his judicial, cultural and banking reforms very much laid the groundwork for what’s going to happen in the next decade.

Just a long march as opposed to a revolution. End result will be the same.

So your argument is that moving from a centre-right party to a centre left party means we are going to turn into a marxist dystopia?

I might argue that the path we're on leads to a Nazi dictatorship and my argument would be just as sensible.

I'm not sure how old you are but if you're old enough to have lived as an adult in a now-fallen communist country then I'm sorry for your discomfort but your line of argument is hugely flawed.

Your argument would be very sensible because the nazis started off as devoted Marxists and socialists. They loved the big state, total state control and planned economy. Their chosen class were Germans as opposed to other classes anointed by other similar regimes, and this is the only reason they ended up in the ‚right wing’ camp. But the totalitarian mechanisms were the same as in any commie regime.

’If we are socialists we must be anti-semites. How as a socialist can you not be an anti-semite?’ Adolf Hitler.

I recommend a book called ‘The Lost Literature of Socialism’. Very insightful. The two cheeks of the same a**e are closer than you think.

The fact that many Western people today don’t know history and can’t learn from it doesn’t make my argument flawed.

I don't doubt the two arse-cheeks are similar mechanically. But totalitarianism is not unique to marxists or left wingers. The Nazis chose to use the word 'socialist' but they did not have any socialist 'policies' by the time they were murdering people.

What I am saying is that your argument that moderate policies always turn into extreme ones is throughly flawed. But I think you know this.

Guaranteed jobs for all, planned economy in terms of building infrastructure and complete government oversight of all areas of life were very much socialist policies.

Are you aware at all that Marx was a massive antisemite?

A harmful policy ‘in moderation’ is going to take a bit longer to do the damage. Look at South Africa and Zimbabwe. A slow death is still a death.

'complete government oversight of all areas of life' 😂

Sounds like the OP had a good run and it is ending. Others will have had a bad time of it. That is politics, things aren’t always set up for your own needs above others.

We know enough British history to know you’re talking catastrophising nonsense.

I have just been quickly catching Naga on Radio 5 discussing the manifestos and women's health. All were analysed by an independent expert and the conclusion was nobody had a perfect policy.
Lib Dem and Labour were more or less equal in the lead but neither perfect.
The Nationalist Party's pretty poor.
The Cons havea policy ithe air which inet had been promised for 2 years but nothing after tat.
Women's health barely figures in Reform's..
So if Labour are really hating female squeezed middles maybe LibDem is worth a look.