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General election 2024

Hooray acc to Keir women have vaginas!

136 replies

Billyandharry · 20/06/2024 22:02

Acc to Qu Time special tonight.
So anyone still saying I'm not voting Labour because they 'don't know what a woman is'. It seems they have remembered!
So don't vote for them if you have other reasons but can we put this tired old line to bed now?

OP posts:
Lottelenya · 21/06/2024 00:01

@AnneLovesGilbert your criticism is so one sided. Rishi jumped on the band wagon because he could see he was toast and the Tories have form for exploiting anything that will win votes.
GC poster girl Miriam Cates wants women back in their boxes, tied to the sink and procreating like good Christian women. Why don’t you criticise her for her anti feminist views ?

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/06/2024 00:10

I have never hated any politician as much as I hate Starmer - and that's saying something. I hate a lot of them quite a bit, but he's something else. Loathsome little toad!

Lottelenya · 21/06/2024 00:45

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/06/2024 00:10

I have never hated any politician as much as I hate Starmer - and that's saying something. I hate a lot of them quite a bit, but he's something else. Loathsome little toad!

So johnson and truss who together wrecked the economy and partied while folk died aren’t as bad ? Wow.

chaosmaker · 21/06/2024 00:46

He also wouldn't answer questions about Corbyn and if he believed in him when he was the leader of the LP.
Was on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday and was wanging on about how he protected vulnerable WAG but the QC in the Rotherham case was also interviewed about him maybe on there or another show (can't keep up) and had some interesting things to say about starmer.

Persianpuss · 21/06/2024 03:46

Lottelenya · 20/06/2024 23:58

Not really just bad faith posting 🤷🏻‍♂️

What is bad faith posting? People having a different opinion to you?

Gnomegarden32 · 21/06/2024 04:18

Obvs nothing about this is funny but can you imagine if 20 years ago we were shown the future - 'LABOUR ACCEPTS WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS' being an actual talking point before an election and not satire 🥲

EasternStandard · 21/06/2024 04:21

MistyGreenAndBlue · 21/06/2024 00:10

I have never hated any politician as much as I hate Starmer - and that's saying something. I hate a lot of them quite a bit, but he's something else. Loathsome little toad!

He’s yet to answer a question with any clarity

People fall for it, especially on here some posts rate him so highly

Persianpuss · 21/06/2024 04:23

Gnomegarden32 · 21/06/2024 04:18

Obvs nothing about this is funny but can you imagine if 20 years ago we were shown the future - 'LABOUR ACCEPTS WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS' being an actual talking point before an election and not satire 🥲

Mad isn't it?

NEWSFLASH "Politician says men aren't women."

And then probably gets death threats.

Slothtoes · 21/06/2024 04:28

I think the mystery of Starmer’s reticence here is very easy to solve: Starmer is a lawyer. He’s not a populist like Boris Johnson (or to a less obviously mendacious extent Rishi Sunak)

Starmer can’t truthfully say, ‘Yes of course, I know what a woman is just as everyone else knows, a woman = adult human female, end of story.’ Because by that definition for as long as we still have the GRA in the UK, actually a woman (legally) could perfectly well be a man who has got a GRC. Women in the UK therefore legally absolutely can have penises. Men can have vaginas.

If Starmer denied that, then logically he’d have to propose to get rid of the GRA. As logically which the Tories should be doing but haven’t. Funny how the individuals of the Tories who now say in a self-congratulatory way that they know what a woman is and ‘women don’t have penises’ may say they think that, but none of them actually have pushed their party to get rid of the GRA in 14 years in government with a big majority.

So actually the question we need to ask all the general election candidates is ‘Why should a woman have a penis?’ or ‘Why should a man have a vagina?’ or more directly ‘why do we need the GRA when we have the Equality Act?’

Because we all already know that women have vaginas and men penises. That’s not the question at issue. The issue is who gets to call themselves a woman, or a man, and what are the consequences of the law giving them that choice- for the individual and for everyone else in society?

I don’t think Starmer is in any way likely to scrap the GRA (which needs to be repealed for lots of reasons!). I think he just wants to get candidacy questions in this area over with ASAP because they are so fraught because he wants to please everyone in the current legal context, which is impossible. So I very much doubt that Labour will action anything on this area at all if they do get into government. Doing nothing is the least controversial thing to do. They know how hugely unpopular self ID is. They’ll behave exactly like the Tories have been doing since they saw their self ID proposal get panned in the media. It’s not worth the pain coming for Labour from either side if they do anything more than nothing.

Starmer will hedge his bets on this as a candidate and still will not criticise the abuse and threats to Rosie Duffield as he should, because that would upset TRAs, which is shameful of him. I totally agree with him when he said he wants to give ‘respect and dignity to everyone’ though. That is the ideal aspiration we all want to get to.

Starmer and the rest of the political class just haven’t accepted that you can give everyone respect and dignity without allowing people to legally change their sex- because that step creates a serious impact on the rights of others in society.

But of course everyone should be able to dress or name themselves just as they wish without repercussions, relying on the legal protections that everyone has already got via the Equality Act. An EQA which needs amendment to clarify sex vs gender as Sex Matters have long advocated for. A amendment which the Tories (who have apparently known for ages ‘what a woman is’) have not implemented…

EasternStandard · 21/06/2024 04:38

Slothtoes · 21/06/2024 04:28

I think the mystery of Starmer’s reticence here is very easy to solve: Starmer is a lawyer. He’s not a populist like Boris Johnson (or to a less obviously mendacious extent Rishi Sunak)

Starmer can’t truthfully say, ‘Yes of course, I know what a woman is just as everyone else knows, a woman = adult human female, end of story.’ Because by that definition for as long as we still have the GRA in the UK, actually a woman (legally) could perfectly well be a man who has got a GRC. Women in the UK therefore legally absolutely can have penises. Men can have vaginas.

If Starmer denied that, then logically he’d have to propose to get rid of the GRA. As logically which the Tories should be doing but haven’t. Funny how the individuals of the Tories who now say in a self-congratulatory way that they know what a woman is and ‘women don’t have penises’ may say they think that, but none of them actually have pushed their party to get rid of the GRA in 14 years in government with a big majority.

So actually the question we need to ask all the general election candidates is ‘Why should a woman have a penis?’ or ‘Why should a man have a vagina?’ or more directly ‘why do we need the GRA when we have the Equality Act?’

Because we all already know that women have vaginas and men penises. That’s not the question at issue. The issue is who gets to call themselves a woman, or a man, and what are the consequences of the law giving them that choice- for the individual and for everyone else in society?

I don’t think Starmer is in any way likely to scrap the GRA (which needs to be repealed for lots of reasons!). I think he just wants to get candidacy questions in this area over with ASAP because they are so fraught because he wants to please everyone in the current legal context, which is impossible. So I very much doubt that Labour will action anything on this area at all if they do get into government. Doing nothing is the least controversial thing to do. They know how hugely unpopular self ID is. They’ll behave exactly like the Tories have been doing since they saw their self ID proposal get panned in the media. It’s not worth the pain coming for Labour from either side if they do anything more than nothing.

Starmer will hedge his bets on this as a candidate and still will not criticise the abuse and threats to Rosie Duffield as he should, because that would upset TRAs, which is shameful of him. I totally agree with him when he said he wants to give ‘respect and dignity to everyone’ though. That is the ideal aspiration we all want to get to.

Starmer and the rest of the political class just haven’t accepted that you can give everyone respect and dignity without allowing people to legally change their sex- because that step creates a serious impact on the rights of others in society.

But of course everyone should be able to dress or name themselves just as they wish without repercussions, relying on the legal protections that everyone has already got via the Equality Act. An EQA which needs amendment to clarify sex vs gender as Sex Matters have long advocated for. A amendment which the Tories (who have apparently known for ages ‘what a woman is’) have not implemented…

An EQA which needs amendment to clarify sex vs gender as Sex Matters have long advocated for.

Which amendment is this? Similar to the one Badenoch put forward for the GE, ie use sex as definition in EqA, or something else?

Labour haven’t put this forward, since their win looks likely no amendment will happen.

They’ll appease TRAs though with some of what they’re proposing.

RoseAndGeranium · 21/06/2024 07:29

MoonshineSon · 20/06/2024 23:30

More fool you.

Wow, what a reasoned and salient point, definitely not rolling my eyes and thinking you just enjoy insulting people on the internet.

tiggergoesbounce · 21/06/2024 07:31

There are better leaders and parties out there

Out of interest, who do you think they are, who actually have a chance of getting in ?

ActivePeony · 21/06/2024 07:37

LakeTiticaca · 20/06/2024 22:26

Nah as soon as he gets the keys to number 10, women's penises will miraculously reappear 😉

100% this.

pilates · 21/06/2024 07:48

^
Agree

ActivePeony · 21/06/2024 07:49

Gnomegarden32 · 21/06/2024 04:18

Obvs nothing about this is funny but can you imagine if 20 years ago we were shown the future - 'LABOUR ACCEPTS WOMEN HAVE VAGINAS' being an actual talking point before an election and not satire 🥲

The Thick Of It is real it seems...

DrBlackbird · 21/06/2024 08:03

Persianpuss · 21/06/2024 03:46

What is bad faith posting? People having a different opinion to you?

I was wondering this as well.

Would telling women concerned about Labour’s repeated assertion that they’ll make self-ID easier to ‘go vote for the despicable Farage’ be an example of bad faith posting?

Interesting point @Slothtoes and I understand that Haldane’s judgement complicated matters, but as Starmer is a lawyer he knows the importance of precise terminology. So why hasn’t he been saying .1% of legal women have penises? He’d have been technically correct then.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 21/06/2024 08:06

Lottelenya · 20/06/2024 23:58

Not really just bad faith posting 🤷🏻‍♂️

Its good to see you admitting it….well done for being honest

Theunamedcat · 21/06/2024 08:07

Zebedee999 · 20/06/2024 22:32

It's yet another U turn. He's made so many and he's not even in power yet! There are better leaders and parties out there.

But non who have a chance at getting the Conservative government out

Billyandharry · 21/06/2024 08:52

Well they'll win anyway so our mumsnet debates are irrelevant I guess!
I for one can't wait to see the back of the shite that have made my life a misery for 14 years.
The bar is set so low for the Tories and so much higher for Labour. Bring on July 4th!

OP posts:
Brefugee · 21/06/2024 09:06

Lottelenya · 21/06/2024 00:01

@AnneLovesGilbert your criticism is so one sided. Rishi jumped on the band wagon because he could see he was toast and the Tories have form for exploiting anything that will win votes.
GC poster girl Miriam Cates wants women back in their boxes, tied to the sink and procreating like good Christian women. Why don’t you criticise her for her anti feminist views ?

She's my MP. So much as I would be voting for her as an opposition MP (all things being equal) I don't want to vote for her.

I really wish I could vote in Sheffield central

crumpet · 21/06/2024 09:09

Billyandharry · 20/06/2024 22:02

Acc to Qu Time special tonight.
So anyone still saying I'm not voting Labour because they 'don't know what a woman is'. It seems they have remembered!
So don't vote for them if you have other reasons but can we put this tired old line to bed now?

Don’t get too excited. He’s including pretend vaginas in that.

MendingTheNets · 21/06/2024 09:16

What makes me more angry than anything about Starmer is that he knows he is lying, he doesn't actually believe what he's saying for a single second. It's just a shameless way to get the younger vote, whilst denying biological reality and the effect of his lie on women and girls.

Billyandharry · 21/06/2024 09:18

Labour certainly aint perfect but can anyone give me ONE example of what the Tories have done for women in the last 14 years?? Just one??? I can give you many examples of how they've made it harder especially if you're not rich...

OP posts:
Lottelenya · 21/06/2024 09:18

What on earth is wrong with U turns. Ok so Maggie wasn’t for turning but crikey that was 40 + years ago and politics should be more pragmatic. Surely being able to change your mind somewhat is fine. Sounds like a Tory strap line tbh. And I note there is never any cynicism about the Tories sudden ‘respect’ for women.
Essentially unless he banishes all trans folk to Siberia you won’t be happy with Starmer. Some of the name calling is f***g childish. And I know you aren’t transphobic but not all transfolk are fetishists or trying to rape women.