So uni fees are going to increase?

[nearlylovemyusername]

University sector calls on Labour to raise tuition fees to ‘stabilise the ship’ (ft.com)

Given paywall, the essence it this:

"One former university vice-chancellor said the fact that Labour had acknowledged the sector was “in crisis” indicated that Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer and Phillipson, who have not ruled out a tuition fee increase, were likely to act.

“The short-term pain of putting up fees could be blamed on the Tory inheritance . . . and then traded against a transition to a better deal for young people, which Labour can deliver before next general election,” he said."

So it won't be limited by VAT on PS, uni fees will be up, potentially significantly and repayments for higher earning grads will go up much more - this is what artical says.

A lot of the children who you would classify as international do not hold dual nationality and have no real connection with the country that their parent/grandparent came from. Even if they do, they aren't likely to want to move there as their lives are here.

I see you are back to the "people will leave" if we put VAT on fees thing.,

They won't as previously stated a lot of people are less internationally mobile than they think.

“A lot of the children who you would classify as international do not hold dual nationality and have no real connection with the country that their parent/grandparent came from. Even if they do, they aren't likely to want to move there as their lives are here.“

This is simply not true for many of the families we know personally. Nor does it apply to many of the successful international people I work with. This thread is about graduates and uni fees and uni debt. Of course young intelligent people with family and connections abroad will weigh up all their options and make a choice accordingly whether before embarking on a course or after, when seeking employment.

@Aladdinzane - the last question on the debate tonight goes to my exact point!

You classify anyone who is BAME as "international" loads of those children who are BAME are the grandchildren of people who migrated here in the 50s/60s and never returned. They might be able to choose a passport but they don't have lots of connections in the countries their grandparents came from.

An international student is one who is here for the purpose of education, not someone born here or for whom the UK is their main country of residence for more than education purposes.

"This thread is about graduates and uni fees and uni debt. "

The UK still attracts lots of students from abroad, some choose to stay, the majority return home ( and always have).

We still retain a huge number of our own graduates.

https://trustforlondon.org.uk/data/geography-population/#:~:text=41%25%20of%20Londoners%20were%20born,by%20Central%20London%20(44%25).
41% of Londoners were born outside of the UK, compared to 13% of people in the rest of England. West London has the highest proportion - with 47% of residents not born in the UK, followed by Central London (44%).

Pretty sure Central and West London are quite wealthy areas. So many of these rich people and their kids will have ties abroad and options. It is a simple fact.

Central and West London also have large amounts of poverty.

But you're still talking nonsense and your definition of international is frankly a bit weird.

No it is not weird @alladinzane and if you just watched the debate between Starmer and Sunak like I did, you will have seen that the last question from a young woman who was a graduate was exactly along these lines. And both are potential leaders did not answer it satisfactorily. It is a major issue - how will we work on keeping this country attractive to our young graduates when student debt is huge, house prices are too high and in work taxes are stifling.

I wasn't watching it.

As said, most people aren't nearly as internationally mobile as they think. Even finance and tech people.

Well watch it then @Alladinzane.
The young female graduate in her 20s stated that many of my peers are leaving the country and going to countries like Australia and Dubai. What would you do to make me stay in the UK?

It isn;t a high % of people leaving though.

I'd let them go.

Most people who move to places like Dubai come back, as it's not the same.

Does that include the junior doctors @alladinzane? You want to let them go?!

Junior Doctors aren't leaving due to uni fees and tax rates.

They're leaving because work conditions are better in other countries, shifts less long, wages better.

Doctors have a lot of uni debt due to multiple years of studying, are under a lot of pressure during training, feel undervalued, do not necessarily get the placements they asked for, some get none etc etc - so many reasons why 4000 doctors left to go abroad in 2023.
Pay erosion - uni debt/taxation/cost of living/housing cost/poor quality, it is all part of the same thing.

It boils down to the simple question of whether the highly qualified young person can get a better opportunity elsewhere. And if the answer is yes, the temptation will be there.

Doctors will always be able to work anywhere, but they'll still have to pay their student loan debt no matter where they work.

Pay and conditions, not taxes/uni fees are the big key things for doctors, particularly conditions.

I thought there's no mechanism for collecting student loans of people who move abroad.

There isn’t. Repayment becomes voluntary so hardly any emigres do it. We’d be far better off writing off student loans after, say ten years, for people who stay here and work in areas with skill shortages. It’s about the only policy Reform has that makes complete sense.

Andrew Neil isn’t an economist and he’s far from objective. If you want to ridicule all the parties’ financial plans in a credible way go to the IFS - which says none of them are realistic.

https://www.cityam.com/ifs-labour-and-conservative-manifestos-singularly-fail-to-address-fiscal-challenges/

Labour’s main growth plan to create 600,000 jobs from Green energy, pursuing net zero and decarbonisation is currently fantasy. Even if the wind is blowing in the right direction we still have no viable means of storing enough of the energy for it to be secure ,reliable and affordable. Paul Nowak in the video cites Biden increasing public spending to create more jobs but the numbers have been very small compared to the amount of money spent. Also the US economy’s growth has been due to the fact they have invested in technology which have secured their own energy sources in oil and gas extraction. This has been a priority for the US ever since 9/11 to be self sufficient in energy.

Renewable energy sources are no answer at all until intermittency has been solved. It hasn't yet - and the solution may be a long time coming (because people have been looking for energy efficient storage at scale for a long time now - and not finding it).
Even nuclear reactors are not a perfect answer because of the expense of construction and the time lag between conception and function - but also because they cannot simply be turned on and off (up and down a bit, yes, drastically, no). So it is likely still to be down to fossil fuels to cover large spikes in energy usage.

No one has grasped the nettle of net zero - which implies a massive upgrade both in generation and in the grid to support it (which is simply not up to it currently). It isn't just productivity that is at stake - it's keeping the lights on as interminable net zero policies put more and more pressure on the grid.
I don't think that any policy maker has a grip on this at all. Because, if they had, they'd be panicking.

We need to continue to develop green technology and energy sources but not rush it in before it’s secure, reliable and affordable. We should phase it in alongside current oil and gas if we don’t want to shoot ourselves in the foot. I recently had to spend £20,000 to replace my perfectly good diesel car because it was not ULEZ compliant. This has wiped out all of my savings but with unsocial hours shift work, children who do sporting activities and elderly infirm parents to ferry around to hospital appointment etc there really wasn’t much choice. One thing all governments need are more scientists as MPs, advisors and SPADS because the current lack of understanding of basic science in energy creation and storage and also medicine during the Covid era is just plain embarrassing and leads to policies is at best Expensive and unworkable and at worst dangerous and harmful.

We’d be far better off writing off student loans after, say ten years, for people who stay here and work in areas with skill shortages. It’s about the only policy Reform has that makes complete sense
I'm quite embarrassed I agree with them on that one

Same. 🤭