So uni fees are going to increase?

[nearlylovemyusername]

University sector calls on Labour to raise tuition fees to ‘stabilise the ship’ (ft.com)

Given paywall, the essence it this:

"One former university vice-chancellor said the fact that Labour had acknowledged the sector was “in crisis” indicated that Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer and Phillipson, who have not ruled out a tuition fee increase, were likely to act.

“The short-term pain of putting up fees could be blamed on the Tory inheritance . . . and then traded against a transition to a better deal for young people, which Labour can deliver before next general election,” he said."

So it won't be limited by VAT on PS, uni fees will be up, potentially significantly and repayments for higher earning grads will go up much more - this is what artical says.

University is a choice but an educated labour force is actually a societal rather than individual choice.

Most British businesses don't want to spend money on training their staff. Instead they want to hire trained ones and fire them at will. So as a society who educates people. In the UK that's unis. In other places, it's a mixture. But first you have to convince British businesses that they need to properly invest in R&D and not be able to fire people willy nilly.

Hardly anyone went. I was a student in the mid 80s and less than 10% of the population had degrees then.

@Blimpton actually salaries have gone up in the last ten years. No in line with inflation (and as an academic I am cross about it) but still.
If salaries haven’t gone up in line with inflation then they haven’t gone up. They’ve gone down.

Salaries have gone up in raw numbers just not as quickly as everything else. So yes unis pay more for salaries while their staff feel poorer. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The choices are:
a) A bigger HE mix, with more apprenticeships, online learning and employer-supported education. Fees will go up for university, but there would be more choice - rather like in the USA where you can go to the Ivy League universities v. a state experience or college experience.
b) More direct funding from the taxpayer is pumped into the universities. This might be weighted, e.g., bursaries or lesser fees for nurses, teachers, etc.
c) A graduate tax instead of a loan.
d) Universities go bust.

I am disappointed at the OU charging so much for fees. It's a missed opportunity given the internet and distance learning choices.

Universities are desperately in need of more funding. Given that the current government has taken steps to reduce the number of International students coming in to subsidise UK students, we have to find another way of paying for this. Either by hiking up tuition fees and student loan repayments for everyone, or through general taxation. The second option could, in theory, be accompanied by steps to reduce the overall number of students going to university I'm order to keep the costs down, but that would probably mean that we would have to accept some universities closing down, and all of the impact that this might have on local economies etc.

There was a news article a few weeks ago about how graduates who are currently making payments on their student loans are finding that their loans are actually increasing not decreasing simply because the interest rate is extremely high.

The interest rates are exploitative and unfair, and actually not in line with inflation or interest rates, especially considering that students cannot shop around for a better deal (SFE is a monopoly) and that the majority of students need the loan to access university (not like e.g. deciding not to get a car loan and just get the bus/train instead or deciding not to get a mortgage and continue renting) and there is no alternative form of funding or lender.

The lending model needs to be addressed before any talk of increasing tuition fees or even lending students more in maintenance (although this is desperately needed as it has not increased in line with the increased cost of living, or above-inflation rises in accommodation at some universities (rich and/or international students exert upward pressure on accommodation costs simply because they are rich enough to just pay up rather than shop around).

It's just profiteering in a monopoly situation.
Plus by keeping extending the period it needs to be paid over and lowering the starting salary, it just increases the cost of the borrowing, more profiteering by a monopoly.

@chaostherapy that would be the taxpayer profiteering - or had you not realised that?

I disagree. We already have hundreds of thousands who go to Uni cos all their mates are going, it’s become a rite of passage (much like going on your first 18-30 holiday). I have three University graduates in my team, they openly admit they have no intention of using their degree for anything and brazenly say they’ll probably get their student loans written off. What we really need is more apprenticeships, not all youngsters going to Uni, crippling their parents with extra costs and ending up in jobs they could have gone in to 4 years earlier without going to Uni.

Before anyone falls for some of the lies being spun higher education policy (tuition fees; repayments thresholds; repayment terms etc) are set by governments - plural given education is a devolved matter.

Loans are administered by the Student Loans Company. SLC is:

a non-profit making government-owned organisation that administers loans and grants to students in colleges and universities in the UK.
SLC is an executive non-departmental public body, sponsored by the Department for Education.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/student-loans-company

Providing expensive accommodation is a huge part of the business plan of most universities. If most students lived at home the universities could go under. DC1s hall of residence in their 1st year was >£9,000.

Also it would be the poorer students who would most likely go to their home university which might offer a course which is ok but not they really want.

A little different to his last pledge to scrap them at the last GE.

We currently have the worst of both worlds - an inadequately funded system that everyone is supposed to go to but gives a proper benefit to relatively few. It either needs to be much more restrictive in who goes to uni so the financial benefit of a degree is such that you can service a loan of the true cost, or much better core funding. It’s just way too expensive for most 18 year olds to justify.

We had a big bang in the university sector, a contraction would be no bad thing.

The whole university sector needs a massive overhaul. My DD is at a RG uni and to be honest I’m absolutely disgusted by the poor provision from the university. It basically costs £60k for a 3 year degree including living costs etc. This is an unbelievable amount of money for around 10 hours a week lectures across about 25 weeks per year of teaching time. The whole thing could easily be done around a full time job. As for the exams- why aren’t the universities teaching students how to use AI properly and expect it in exams? It is widely used in the workplace after all and that’s what they’re going to use when they walk out of the door of university! Why can’t open book exams be used instead? As for the foreign student influx, as a pp said, my DD suffered terribly with being unable to make friends initially as she was one of the few uk students in her accommodation block and foreign students understandably keep within their own groups. Universities have not moved with the times & are only interested in making money unfortunately.
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t a Labour government bring in tuition fees in the first place?

I think this is a great approach for those who live in or near London, where there is a range of universities covering every subject and ability level. I don't think, personally, it would have done me much good to substitute my very academic degree at a serious research-heavy university for a diploma in cow studies at the agricultural university near my parents' home, where the entry criteria is "can you spell the name of your family farm?" Going away to university is how us country bumpkins get to escape.

Agree entirely. The interest rates on student loans are definitely outrageous.

Not really, if you want to become a doctor, dentist, pharmacist, lawyer or teacher. More could be done on degree apprenticeships but they seem slow to get off the ground.

I dont think we ever hit the 50% target to be fair. I think the actual figure is around 38% of 18 year olds.

How do the other countries in the UK manage? How do other countries manage? DH works in a prestigious university and says that it’s the international students and their higher fees which keep things afloat. Maybe we could put their fees up first?

Where have Labour said that they're going to do this? You won't find it because they haven't said it. It's a chancellor at one university who says that they should.
Do you have any more fairytales for us today or do you need to get back to Rory hq?

Something needs to change though, or else there won't actually be any places left for UK students at UK universities. UCL/LSE/KCL are already in the 60% area in terms of international students. Oxbridge are over 50%. Many others at 40%

the first thing that needs to change @chaostherapy is not posting completely inaccurate figures.

Certainly some of the London unis - located in one of the world's foremost global cities and being amongst the most elite global unis - will obviously attract a significant percentage of international students. Just not in the area of 60%.

The Higher Education Statistics Agency fortunately publishes a range of detailed data sets. So for each of the Unis quoted here are the actual international student percentages.

UCL 52.8%

LSE 51.6%

KCL 39.6%

Oxford 20.2%

Cambridge 21.4%

As can be seen the Oxbridge figures are nowhere near the figure stated

In terms of many others at 40%. Hardly

Imperial 47.3%

St. Andrews 41.9% - with half of its international students from the US

Arts London and University of Buckingham (one very specialist the other hardly sought after) both also just under 50% international.

No other uni with over 35% international students.

and only 4 - Coventry, Edinburgh, Manchester and Warwick - in the 30% to 34% range

and just 4 more - City, Lancaster, Sussex, Essex and Brunel - in the 25% to 28% range.

No, we need to reduce the number of universities

BIWI · Today 15:54

Far, far fewer people went to university, so (presumably?) the government funded it.
And this is the position we need to get back to.

See I think it’s really important that everyone has the chance to go to university. I remember a poster on here a couple of years ago bemoaning the fact that she couldn’t get a nice young girl from the local village to come and be her mothers help (for basically peanuts) as they were all doing degrees.

We have a huge crisis in care work (elderly, childcare and everyone in between) because our young people aspire to more and good for them.

If we reduce university places and less kids go, it won’t be the middle class kids that miss out. I’m sure not many middle class families or private school parents are hoping their child becomes a carer on minimum wage or does an apprenticeship, and if it’s not good enough for their kids, why should it be good enough for anyone else’s?

Not really, if you want to become a doctor, dentist, pharmacist, lawyer or teacher.

Or scientist, engineer....
Maybe some of these (which are the more expensive ones to run) which provide specific training the country needs should be subsidised?

What does the money get spent on?

Staffing and pensions which includes student services including counselling, registry, admissions, I.t.support, HR, estates and facilities, security.... The list goes on.

Pensions rules have changed which is costing more.

Fuel bills obviously.

Equipment including computer labs, study spaces, sports, arts etc.

Insurance

Regulatory and membership of professional body fees for some courses

Enhancement activities...trips etc

Library services including subscriptions to journals etc.

We are cost cutting in everything and running on a super tight margin. Loads of pressures on existing staff.