Will we ever know what Labour’s policies are?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Just that really, that debate was a shocker.

Are we just up shit creek without a paddle and he doesn’t have the heart to break it to us?

Yes, June 14th when the costed manifesto is published.

Baffles me why they don't have one ready to go.. surely they're not really scrabbling around thinking up random ideas in a rush? Because that's how it appears.

They've had years to work out a plan.

More like over a decade!!!!

Because things change all the time? They could have written a manifesto last year but the finances would be wrong by now, pointless to base policies on old information. Would you insist on sticking to last years budget in your family if your income had dramatically changed?

Manifestos always come out a few weeks prior to an election.

kier needed to counter Rishi’s claims. Retirement tax is rubbish and not even true. Kier should have said it’s a lie. Same with 2000 extra tax for all. Rishi was making it up. Starmer needed to call out the lie not listen politely. Kier cares but needed to be much more explicit on what he will do. People are open to change so tell them the ideas he has if he waits fully until the manifesto,au chairman it may be too late

My local Labour wannabe MP stuck a leaflet through my door which says Labour will: (quotes from him)

Put more money in the pockets of working people.
Take tough action to secure Britain's borders.
Fix our NHS.

No mention of how of course, so I guess they've got some of those magic money trees ready to harvest.

Tbh we all know by now what Tories policies were and I don’t think it helped us much.
at least not to me.

To some extent yes we are up the creek and none of the political leaders want to admit it.

The country is facing an ever increasing demand for health and care services caused by the increase in lifespan, and there is no realistic plan from any party to try and tackle the problem. The high energy prices are not going away. The oil producing countries have figured out the world can tolerate this level of pricing and there is nothing any UK government can do about it. In the same vein they can all witter on about decreasing immigration but the UK needs ever increasing numbers of immigrants to provide the services people want.

But he can't say the retirement tax is a lie if raiding pensions is what he is going to do and if he not going to raise the personal tax allowance to ensure pensions are not taxed. The fact he couldn't say I won't be doing those.two things says it all. He cant aya he won't because that in itself is a lie.

But he’s not adding a new retirement tax he just isn’t committing to increase an allowance. That’s different surely? Why should pensioners get a higher personal allowance than others anyway. It seems unfair on the young. How is he going to raid pensions. I thought labour were committed to the triple lock just not the plus bit.

The country is facing an ever increasing demand for health and care services caused by the increase in lifespan

The increasing demand is caused by austerity. It's a false economy approach because poverty and ill health are interlinked. (Regarding life expectancy, I understand that's no longer rising).

If pensions go above the current tax allowance and Labour don’t raise the allowance then pensioners will be taxed.
Unlike working age people pensioners are less able to work to top that up leaving many in real poverty.
Working age people at least have an outside chance of working, pensioners don’t.

I understand that. I’d like to know how many pensioners are going to be affected as many do not rely solely on state pension. Some have private schemes too which rightly will be taxed. I’d prefer more help to be targeted to pensioners on pension credit and in real need than a blanket hike in the personal allowance for all pensioners. There is a large income range in pensioner age people. They are not all poor. In hard times benefits must be targeted as should tax breaks. It is I think a cynical ploy by the Tories to shore up the pensioner vote.

I’m not entirely sure why this criticism keeps being pointed at Labour but not at the Tories, - is it just because there’s a tacit assumption that Starmer is going to be the next PM whereas SunK can get away with gimmicks like National Service as their “plan” and everyone just shrugs because no-one expects them to be in power to enact it.

Frankly I think both sides are avoiding the economic reality but they’re as guilty as each other on that.

No.
The increasing demand is due to high birth rates in the 50s and 60s. Those people now are older, many are now passed working age. Every year since 67 birth rates have been falling year on year by 140,000. There are less people to pay into the system.

The country is more heavily dependent on support.

No Party has dealt with this problem since birth rates started falling.
We have always worked by a system where working age people support those that can’t work. Now we have less working age people

25% ( 20-30 depending on who you read ) of working age people are net providers with 75% net beneficiaries.
9.2million 16-64 yr olds are economically inactive. Deleting students and some severely disabled that can’t work the figures still leave us with approx 7 million.

The only way out is more people work, higher taxes, encouraging more industry and so on.

Now we have less working age people

There are 916,000 job vacancies in the UK.
And over 1 million people on working age jobseekers benefits. So there's fewer jobs than there are people looking.

Also everyone, in paid employment or not, is economically active. Buying food and other goods keeps businesses going and people in jobs. Needing healthcare or social care keeps people in jobs.

Separately, it's well-known with many studies to confirm the fact that poverty and ill health are heavily interlinked.

People are going into older age in poorer health because of poverty.

None of which discounts the fact that we have less working age people as birth rates have dropped.
Nor does it discount the fact there is a low rate of net contributors.

Labour pledges are
1 Get Britain building again
2 Switch on Great British Energy
3 Get the NHS back on it's feet
4 Take back our Streets
5 Break down the barriers to opportunity.

They have pledged to build 1.5 million homes. Great British Energy will produce Energy at home so we are never reliant on Energy from Russia, insulate all homes to the highest standard, that will save around £1400 per household & create 500,000 jobs. Get the NHS back on it's feet by cutting waiting lists by giving them the staff & technology they need, use space in the private sector to get more routine operations done. Increase the number of GP appointments & improve what choice patients have, bring back the family doctor so patients can have continuity of care. Improve cancer, heart disease survival rates, cut deaths by suicide by bringing in more staff for mental health. Have more care in the community so patients aren't stuck in hospital, freeing up beds.
Improving GP care would mean that less people end up in A & E & that patients get treatment earlier which in the long run would save the NHS money. Use AI in the diagnosing of cancer & heart disease meaning that more patients can be screened & treated. Taking back our streets, 13,000 more police & PCSO's to cut crime & bring back police in communities, halve crimes against women & girls, cut the times for cases to be brought to court & tougher sentences for crimes against women & girls, especially rape, domestic violence & sexual assault. Introduce new respect orders with tougher conditions for perpetrators of anti social behaviour, ties in with bringing back community policing.
Break down the barriers to opportunity, changes in education, introduce free breakfast clubs for all primary schools, increase teaching numbers by recruiting 6,500 new teachers, more specialist maths & science teachers. Introduce a new curriculum with more creative subjects to include creative, digital & speaking skills to ensure pupils leave school work ready. Expand apprenticeship & skills training to increase opportunity for all.

How?

Nice dreams @Nat6999 but I want to know how before I'd even consider voting for Labour.

They forgot to add 'World Peace' to their list of ideals

Starmer repeatedly failed to answer the questions put to him. A very poor show.

Keir Starmer has been Labour leader since 2020. He’s hardly going to have the same policies as Corbyn and the world is a starkly different place than it was since 2020, even since 2022. The economic landscape has changed rapidly, Sunak’s call for election was surprisingly early, so the Labour manifesto deserves to be as robust as it can.

How do you think the Conservatives are funding the £3.5 billion national service plan when the vow to drop taxes?

If you look on their website they do have a bit more on how, you have to keep clicking for more depth.

Plus we have to wait for the costed manifesto.

It's also worth noting that lots of the things already occur and are being funded so it's just a case of redirecting fund arounds to different priorities. It's not as if the current government doesn't having housing or energy plans.