Will we ever know what Labour’s policies are?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Just that really, that debate was a shocker.

Are we just up shit creek without a paddle and he doesn’t have the heart to break it to us?

I predicted on here ages ago that the manifesto would be wafer thin and very light on detail.

It's pretty obvious they've got an eye to last time when Corbyn had big plans for things nobody wanted.

And Starmer was actively supporting him. So who knows what they stand for?

I'm not even going to read the manifestos.

I'm voting to get out this current disgusting bunch who partied while banning people from visiting dying loved ones. Unforgivable.

Nothing will change my mind at this point.

I thought it was quite clear

Housing
Power
Education

Nice try....

The Tories have been in power for 14 years and their main policies seem to have been to destroy this country, our standard of livings, our seas/rivers, NHS and social care, wasting tax payers money on crazy scheme like the Rwanda gimmick while making as much money as possible for themselves and their rich mates.

Why would anyone vote for that again?

You will know the full details of Labour's policies in their manifesto.

There is also an acceptance from reasonable politicians, including Starmer, that considering how much damage has been done by successive Tory governments there is no magic and instant solutions to the mess that has been created.

It will take a while to even try to redress that sinking ship and it would be foolish to promise tax cuts for example in that context.

But good luck to you if you want to vote for national service, more shit in your rivers and a private NHS...

Be reasonable, the ruling party gets to call the timing of the election. Every other party keeps things up-to-date between elections and starts to warm things up a few months in advance but needs a couple of weeks to finalise the details, get the printing of the physical copies sorted, etc. If you look at all the party websites the in-between election policies and statements have been pulled ready for the election manifestos to be uploaded. Even the Conservative MPs were caught on the hop by the surprise timing of this election.

None of the manifestos have been published yet.

Manifesto launches are big events to be planned and coordinated.

The deadline for candidates to register to stand for election hasn't arrived yet.

Be patient.

But frankly, if you were already that against Starmer before last night then you weren't going to change your mind. So dressing up having a pop at him as some sort of failure on his part is disingenuous.

Yes.

Seems an awful lot to get done by putting vat on private schools. There aren't many of them, and will be even fewer once vat is imposed.
They've said they're not raising tax or NI so.....?

That VAT looks like it’ll raise very little if anything

It’s also meant to just be for extra teachers, which are unlikely if no funding

The increasing demand is due to high birth rates in the 50s and 60s. Those people now are older, many are now passed working age.

The politicians of all parties have had almost 70 years in which to plan for this - and for most of the last 70 years, the government has been led by the Conservatives.

Despite their attempts to pretend that they inherited the issue from "someone else", the current government has been in power for 14 years. Someone now aged 66 was only 52 when this government came to power.

So what was the government's plan for addressing the issue of the increased need for healthcare? The longest-serving Health Minister that the country has ever had is one Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt, who was Minister for 6 years. His response to the looming, and entirely foreseeable, problem was to cut nursing training, reduce investment in the NHS and impose such a poor pay deal on the junior doctors (who today would be the senior doctors) that they left the NHS in droves and went to work in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.

This is the same Jeremy Hunt who is now Chancellor, who has told the NHS Trusts that they will have less money per capita (in real terms) than ever and that balancing the books is more important than treating patients.

Sunak is no better. He keeps trying to blame the huge waiting list on Covid. Other countries also had Covid. No country in Europe has 10% or more of the population waiting months for an NHS appointment. Even before Covid, waiting lists doubled from when the Conservatives came to power, and the lists doubled again after Covid. Last night he tried to blame the nurses - the nurses who are taking industrial action (or even worse, leaving the NHS) because of the appalling working conditions that they are forced to work under because of years of under-investment and the downright incompetence of successive ministers.

Keir Starmer isn’t one for populist sound bites. From his legal training he is a considered and calm speaker. He has laid out several key objectives already. He isn’t aiming to win a shouting contest or pretend to be your mate. He wants to be a serious and effective prime minister with compassion for people which is exactly what we need.
It should also be remembered that he grew up in very average circumstances and has to his great credit worked his way up in a difficult and prestigious profession as a human rights barrister and then became director of public prosecutions.
In contrast Rishi Sunak is the pampered son of very successful middle class parents who went to an exclusive private school and worked as a banker managing hedge funds then married a multi millionaire.
I know who I believe understands what life is like for the majority of the country and it’s not Rishi.

"There are 916,000 job vacancies in the UK.
And over 1 million people on working age jobseekers benefits. So there's fewer jobs than there are people looking."

I've seen these statistics quoted a lot lately and I want to point out that not everyone who is looking and applying for those jobs is claiming jobseekers benefits.
Me, for example, as I had the luck/misfortune to have savings so I've needed to live off those savings for 6 months until now, when they have all but gone and I'm only just qualifying for jobseekers allowance.
There are also people who are already employed and who are looking and applying for new jobs, in fair competition with those who are not employed.
So the whole "more people out of work than there are vacancies" line doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny.

Keir Starmer isn’t one for populist sound bites

I think he might be

’Smash the gangs’ - not sure that’s doable

VAT is populist rather than economically sound

Plus he’s really not a good speaker

I dont know why posters are ridiculing labour for mot having published their manifesto yet. Conservatives have obviously had no plan for years and have scrapped about in the dust to get by. Is this what people want?

People expect to see some kind of personal miracle bestowed upon them, ignoring everything else.
Let's just forget the dramatic increase in funding to the NHS and MOD. The dramatic increase to minimum wages twice. The reduction in NI twice. The millions of people who had their jobs saved during Covid with furlough. The Rwanda plan. Stability during a war crisis.
I'm curious as to why people would have forfeited all of that and preferred to have a different party. What would they have done better?

Whereas the government has had years to actually get on with their 'plan'. The government flip and flop according to what gets them votes week to week now the election has been announced. A number of things they've announced in the last couple of weeks yet didn't feel worthy of doing in the last 14 years. Smells of desperation 🙄

You almost had me until ‘Rwanda plan’

You can’t defend labour by holding them against Tory standards, surely?

Until they release the manifesto, have a read here

https://labour.org.uk/missions/

Do you think the smash the gangs one is a good way to go?

Offshore processing will pick up in other countries

But I’m intrigued by Labour’s offer. How do we become the people cleaning up trafficking networks? You get one and another takes their place

Plus the resources to find them

A knock on of that will have to be more affordable and accessible child care. Many people who could work don't do so because they end up worse off after they've paid for commuting and child care - they are earning an income to go backwards.

I’d like to know how many pensioners are going to be affected as many do not rely solely on state pension. Some have private schemes too which rightly will be taxed.

Just to set the facts straight. The current full state pension is £11502.40. The current personal tax allowance is £12,570. So any private pension income is already taxed.

There were so many open goals that Starmer could have hit here. The Tories plans just amount to 'tax cuts'. All very well if services are working and we have a strong growing economy, but we have neither. Tax cuts for pensioners won't do much if they are swallowed up by having to pay for private healthcare rather than sit on waiting lists. My mother will hardly notice her 25% on the tiny amount her pension will go up over the tax threshold, but she will notice having to pay £4k for DS to have orthodontist treatment because the waiting list is 2 years, or paying extra for her shopping because of inflation. They've already had to admit the £2k to pay for energy was over 5 years. And was aimed at long-term investment in energy security. All our problems today are caused by short termism and tax cuts over investment. Going back to Thatcher selling off North Sea oil so shareholders and private companies benefit instead of the country. Not heatpumps, which was a Tory policy in the first place. He should have absolutely picked up on Sunaks.'People shouldn't be penalised for wanting the best for their children' in relation to private school. As if the vast majority who can't afford private school don't want the best for their children.

This whole thread basically is people saying 'Well, he's not Rishi Sunak who I hate because he has the temerity to be rich and Labour are not as bad as the Tories so I'll give them my vote.'

The Labour party is definitively not being voted into power because they are the best option; they are getting into power because they are the least worst option.

Good time to be alive.

That’s not going to change in the next few years , starmer doesn’t have a magic money tree , covid and putin caused us to have so many financial constraints.

im really astounded folks seem to think labour will get in then every rung will magically change, that he’s going to pull tens of billions out his arse, build new facilities, get more staff, and magically reduce waiting lists.

surely no one is this naive?

Hello

Sadly, we do nknw what "labour has to offer" - a big fat zero along with putting our nation at the mercy of the evil Putin, if/when the left wing, Angela Rayner takes over as many expect.

I actually watched the trashing of the socialist leader, Starmer by the one that has the the ability to talk the talk..
Starmer had nothing, a big, fat zero response to the green way forward, defence, and NHS. Worryingly, the person who would take over Starmer, the charismatic, Angela Rayner does not believe in our nuclear deterrent (NHS would not matter that much if we got nuked)- therefore, Putin must be preparing a party if Labour slips in via the back door with a coalition partner/s!!