Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

General election 2024

Will we ever know what Labour’s policies are?

176 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 04/06/2024 23:21

Just that really, that debate was a shocker.

Are we just up shit creek without a paddle and he doesn’t have the heart to break it to us?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 05/06/2024 09:54

Thisagainandagain · 05/06/2024 09:14

Whereas the government has had years to actually get on with their 'plan'. The government flip and flop according to what gets them votes week to week now the election has been announced. A number of things they've announced in the last couple of weeks yet didn't feel worthy of doing in the last 14 years. Smells of desperation 🙄

We have voted Tory every since I I started work as have my family and sibling - in later years my parents turned to the Torys, the working people's friends that will reward ordinary workers for their hard work. Labout will inflict thousands on to all those that are not on benefits via the 'Green' promises of those very expensive heating systems and forced to buy new cars as diesel and petrol are written off to meet 'green targets

The fact is Labour lot are saying different things, one is saying we are doing this and the others is saying, no we are not

Labour is not only a joke but a dangerous joke, just ask Angela Rayner re our nuclear deterrent. Dont forget what is happing in the Ukraine

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-labours-28bn-green-prosperity-plan-13066640

What is Labour's green prosperity plan and why has the £28bn spending pledge been axed?

With the key spending pledge ditched from the scheme, Sky News looks at how we got here.

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-labours-28bn-green-prosperity-plan-13066640

DramaLlamaBangBang · 05/06/2024 09:54

Theweepywillow · 05/06/2024 09:46

That’s not going to change in the next few years , starmer doesn’t have a magic money tree , covid and putin caused us to have so many financial constraints.

im really astounded folks seem to think labour will get in then every rung will magically change, that he’s going to pull tens of billions out his arse, build new facilities, get more staff, and magically reduce waiting lists.

surely no one is this naive?

Of course not. But in a choice between making a start or continuing a slow decline for short-term tax cuts, then I'll vote for a start. Rwanda is costing tens of billions. Tax loopholes and subsidies for the oil and gas companies are costing us billions. My children probably have to live here ( thanks to Brexit) and the Tories have offered them nothing now or for the future.

crackofdoom · 05/06/2024 09:57

Aaron95 · 04/06/2024 23:49

To some extent yes we are up the creek and none of the political leaders want to admit it.

The country is facing an ever increasing demand for health and care services caused by the increase in lifespan, and there is no realistic plan from any party to try and tackle the problem. The high energy prices are not going away. The oil producing countries have figured out the world can tolerate this level of pricing and there is nothing any UK government can do about it. In the same vein they can all witter on about decreasing immigration but the UK needs ever increasing numbers of immigrants to provide the services people want.

High energy prices could go away. Electricity from renewable sources is the cheapest kind there is right now, but in order for this to filter down to our bills we need to uncouple unit prices from gas prices (I believe the EU are already looking into this), invest in expanding the National Grid, encourage onshore wind and invest in a heat pumps rollout. I haven't looked at Labour's Great British Energy proposals yet- I'm waiting until the manifesto is published- but I hope that these points will be in it.

EasternStandard · 05/06/2024 10:01

crackofdoom · 05/06/2024 09:57

High energy prices could go away. Electricity from renewable sources is the cheapest kind there is right now, but in order for this to filter down to our bills we need to uncouple unit prices from gas prices (I believe the EU are already looking into this), invest in expanding the National Grid, encourage onshore wind and invest in a heat pumps rollout. I haven't looked at Labour's Great British Energy proposals yet- I'm waiting until the manifesto is published- but I hope that these points will be in it.

Who’s paying for the heat pump rollout?

The cost per house is very high it would be extortionate

tiggergoesbounce · 05/06/2024 10:03

There are 916,000 job vacancies in the UK.
And over 1 million people on working age jobseekers benefits. So there's fewer jobs than there are people looking

Also how many of these jobs are actually contracted permanent job vavancies? Or how many are "fake" job roles and are zero hour contract roles.

tiggergoesbounce · 05/06/2024 10:08

OP probably best to wait until the manifesto is published????
I'm not sure of the criticism, they have given the date it's going to be released, with plenty of time to read it before you vote??

tiggergoesbounce · 05/06/2024 10:12

Are we just up shit creek without a paddle and he doesn’t have the heart to break it to us?
He's basically already admitted their is not quick fix out of the devastating circumstance we are in now.

It definitely won't be a "give labour a year and see where we are" labour have lots to do just to get us stable, never mind progress.

crackofdoom · 05/06/2024 10:17

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 05/06/2024 09:54

We have voted Tory every since I I started work as have my family and sibling - in later years my parents turned to the Torys, the working people's friends that will reward ordinary workers for their hard work. Labout will inflict thousands on to all those that are not on benefits via the 'Green' promises of those very expensive heating systems and forced to buy new cars as diesel and petrol are written off to meet 'green targets

The fact is Labour lot are saying different things, one is saying we are doing this and the others is saying, no we are not

Labour is not only a joke but a dangerous joke, just ask Angela Rayner re our nuclear deterrent. Dont forget what is happing in the Ukraine

https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-labours-28bn-green-prosperity-plan-13066640

What is this pile of guff 😆 Nobody's going to be "forced" to buy "expensive" cars- you just won't be able to buy a new ICE car from 2035 (which is a Tory policy). Nobody's going to stop you from buying a second hand one, and over that time 2nd hand EVs will also get cheaper.

And by "expensive heating systems", do you mean heat pumps? I've got one in my house, and my annual electricity bill (and my house is all electric) is under a grand. I was lucky enough to get one in my HA newbuild, but nobody's going to be "forced" to get one- what I'd hope to see is an increase in grants to have heat pumps installed, especially for the poorest, plus investment in training heat pump installers and engineers.

As for the Tories "rewarding those who work hard"- they've had 14 years to do this, and all I see on here is people working themselves to the point of breakdown to pay for mortgages, childcare and other living costs, all of which have shot up over those 14 years 🙄.

1dayatatime · 05/06/2024 10:18

I think Labour's central policy is that they are not the Conservatives.

That the Conservatives have done an appalling job over the last 14 years. There is a large amount of truth to this with Brexit (but supported by the majority of voters), Covid policies (but supported by the majority at the time), Boris Johnson (again supported by most voters in 2019), Liz Truss (quite simply WTF happened there??).

But aside from the Tories were bad and we're not the Tories there is no credible policies that Labour would be any better, which is thoroughly depressing.

Havanananana · 05/06/2024 10:19

@andymary
"Let's just forget the dramatic increase in funding to the NHS and MOD. The dramatic increase to minimum wages twice. The reduction in NI twice. The millions of people who had their jobs saved during Covid with furlough. The Rwanda plan. Stability during a war crisis."

NHS funding has not increased in real terms, or in per capita terms, over the last 14 years. Increasing funding from "not enough" to "a little more than not enough" doesn't solve the problem of underinvestment in NHS staff, building and equipment. Germany invests 30% more per head per annum on healthcare - has minimal waiting lists and as Covid revealed, has far more ITU beds, ventilators, hospital beds in general and more staff per capita. This had a direct impact on the numbers that survived Covid compared with the UK. Austria has almost twice as many doctors per capita as the UK, which has one of the lowest levels in Europe and the OECD.

The MOD has wasted what money it was given on aircraft carriers that can't get any further than the Solent, have no planes and no pilots. Alongside tanks and other vehicles that break down and put their occupants in danger.

Minimum wage rate per hour has increased, but not necessarily minimum wages. If a cafe can only afford to pay someone £300 a week, then as the minimum wage rate has increased, the number of hours has been reduced, so the employee still only earns £300. Wages in real terms have not increased since the government came to power in 2010.

Reducing NI is nonsense-economics, introduced by Chancellors whose knowledge of economics can be written on the back of a postage stamp. By reducing the tax available to the Treasury, they reduce the money available for the NHS, MOD, schools, policing, infrastructure etc. - further destroying vital public services so that their chums can earn higher profits.

The government's Covid measures did indeed save jobs - every government in Europe did this, and if Labour had been in government, they too would have been forced to do this. Sunak is never as keen to mention the disaster that was "Eat Out to Peg Out" or the billions lost by his support schemes that were an open invitation to fraudsters (and that he deemed too difficult to even attempt to prosecute and reclaim).

The Rwanda Plan? WTF? £240 million and counting spaffed on a scheme that has yet to send a single person to Rwanda (quite apart from the moral and legal issues of such an appalling policy). Mr Kagame says thank you. The local luxury car dealerships are rubbing their hands in anticipation.

Stability in a war crisis? Is the UK at war? Who with and since when?

I'm curious as to why people would have forfeited all of that and preferred to have a different party. What would they have done better?

I'm curious as to why anyone thinks that what the Conservative shits, shysters and charlatans have "achieved" over the last 14 years is anything to cheer about. Greater inequality. Public services underfunded and on the point of collapse. Rivers and beaches full of shit (while their chums pay themselves billions in dividends), housing unaffordable (and again, Tory chums and donors are reporting record profits). How could anyone actually have done worse than this shower?

Another76543 · 05/06/2024 10:19

Nat6999 · 05/06/2024 01:11

Labour pledges are
1 Get Britain building again
2 Switch on Great British Energy
3 Get the NHS back on it's feet
4 Take back our Streets
5 Break down the barriers to opportunity.

They have pledged to build 1.5 million homes. Great British Energy will produce Energy at home so we are never reliant on Energy from Russia, insulate all homes to the highest standard, that will save around £1400 per household & create 500,000 jobs. Get the NHS back on it's feet by cutting waiting lists by giving them the staff & technology they need, use space in the private sector to get more routine operations done. Increase the number of GP appointments & improve what choice patients have, bring back the family doctor so patients can have continuity of care. Improve cancer, heart disease survival rates, cut deaths by suicide by bringing in more staff for mental health. Have more care in the community so patients aren't stuck in hospital, freeing up beds.
Improving GP care would mean that less people end up in A & E & that patients get treatment earlier which in the long run would save the NHS money. Use AI in the diagnosing of cancer & heart disease meaning that more patients can be screened & treated. Taking back our streets, 13,000 more police & PCSO's to cut crime & bring back police in communities, halve crimes against women & girls, cut the times for cases to be brought to court & tougher sentences for crimes against women & girls, especially rape, domestic violence & sexual assault. Introduce new respect orders with tougher conditions for perpetrators of anti social behaviour, ties in with bringing back community policing.
Break down the barriers to opportunity, changes in education, introduce free breakfast clubs for all primary schools, increase teaching numbers by recruiting 6,500 new teachers, more specialist maths & science teachers. Introduce a new curriculum with more creative subjects to include creative, digital & speaking skills to ensure pupils leave school work ready. Expand apprenticeship & skills training to increase opportunity for all.

Anyone can stand up and say those things. It’s easy to say in opposition. HOW are they going to do those things? How is it going to be funded? Increased funding means either increased taxes, decreased spending elsewhere or increased borrowing. Private school parents and non doms aren’t the answer to all these spending plans.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 05/06/2024 10:21

crackofdoom · 05/06/2024 10:17

What is this pile of guff 😆 Nobody's going to be "forced" to buy "expensive" cars- you just won't be able to buy a new ICE car from 2035 (which is a Tory policy). Nobody's going to stop you from buying a second hand one, and over that time 2nd hand EVs will also get cheaper.

And by "expensive heating systems", do you mean heat pumps? I've got one in my house, and my annual electricity bill (and my house is all electric) is under a grand. I was lucky enough to get one in my HA newbuild, but nobody's going to be "forced" to get one- what I'd hope to see is an increase in grants to have heat pumps installed, especially for the poorest, plus investment in training heat pump installers and engineers.

As for the Tories "rewarding those who work hard"- they've had 14 years to do this, and all I see on here is people working themselves to the point of breakdown to pay for mortgages, childcare and other living costs, all of which have shot up over those 14 years 🙄.

Edited

Clearly you did not watch last nights effort by the socialist leader when challenged about this. You are entitled to your opinion but I do urge you to watch the recording of it.

I though that Sunak would get a good beating - but Starmer was lost for words re 'green' credentials and even worse, about his sidekick and nucealr deterrent

You would have thought that 15 years in opposition gave them time to prepare but I guess they were too busy trying to keep out the left wing and even that has been unseccusful

andymary · 05/06/2024 10:22

Blackcats7 · 05/06/2024 09:07

Keir Starmer isn’t one for populist sound bites. From his legal training he is a considered and calm speaker. He has laid out several key objectives already. He isn’t aiming to win a shouting contest or pretend to be your mate. He wants to be a serious and effective prime minister with compassion for people which is exactly what we need.
It should also be remembered that he grew up in very average circumstances and has to his great credit worked his way up in a difficult and prestigious profession as a human rights barrister and then became director of public prosecutions.
In contrast Rishi Sunak is the pampered son of very successful middle class parents who went to an exclusive private school and worked as a banker managing hedge funds then married a multi millionaire.
I know who I believe understands what life is like for the majority of the country and it’s not Rishi.

"He has laid out several key objectives already."
With zero details given on how?

He wants to spend endless money on...

  • "Set up a new Office for Value for Money" - we already have the Office for Budget Responsibility, so he wants to spend money on two public funded bodies now?
  • "Appoint a Covid Corruption Commissioner, equipped with the powers they need to chase down those who have ripped off the taxpayer, take them to court" - Can you imagine the millions and millions of taxpayer money this is going to cost to reclaim probably less money than what it's cost to set up!
  • "Stick to tough fiscal rules" - The jury's out on this one? It's anyone's guess from putting taxes back up, to increasing VAT, to decreasing benefit payouts and pensions.
  • "Switching on Great British Energy, a new publicly owned, clean energy company" - Where's the billions and 10-years coming from to fund a complete new energy company with its own power generation?
  • "Improve cancer survival rates and reduce deaths from heart disease and suicide." - How? Does he have a magic medicine to cure cancer?
  • "Make sure there’s a world class teacher in every classroom" - How?
  • "Put 13,000 more neighbourhood police and PCSOs on our streets." - Pretty useless without giving the Police more powers and tools to actually combat crime (and defend themselves whilst doing so).
  • "The British Army is now its smallest size since it fought Napoleon, one in five of the Royal Navy’s ships have been removed from service" - He doesn't understand that we don't need ships and tanks anymore. We have drones and missiles. The next world war will not be fought in person via military personnel, but from a desk controlling these unmanned defence solutions.

"In contrast Rishi Sunak is the pampered son of very successful middle class parents"
Sounds like you're being discriminative based on someone's upkeeping.

BIossomtoes · 05/06/2024 10:23

Another76543 · 05/06/2024 10:19

Anyone can stand up and say those things. It’s easy to say in opposition. HOW are they going to do those things? How is it going to be funded? Increased funding means either increased taxes, decreased spending elsewhere or increased borrowing. Private school parents and non doms aren’t the answer to all these spending plans.

Wait for the manifesto. In 2019 they were launched 21 (Tory) and 24 (Labour) days before polling day. There’s still 29 days to go.

TeenagersAngst · 05/06/2024 10:24

And I know it's not popular to say anything other than nasty things about Liz Truss on here, but she categorically did not crash the economy as KS mentioned a few times and is often trotted out by plenty of people in politics. Her rather unwise mini budget certainly spooked the market and led to a short term spike in bond yields and mortgage rates, but that lasted for less than a month.

She did not crash the economy. Even the BBC say this now.

So why is KS saying it?

EasternStandard · 05/06/2024 10:25

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 05/06/2024 10:21

Clearly you did not watch last nights effort by the socialist leader when challenged about this. You are entitled to your opinion but I do urge you to watch the recording of it.

I though that Sunak would get a good beating - but Starmer was lost for words re 'green' credentials and even worse, about his sidekick and nucealr deterrent

You would have thought that 15 years in opposition gave them time to prepare but I guess they were too busy trying to keep out the left wing and even that has been unseccusful

I agree on the green stuff it would be extortionate as taxpayers or individually doing own houses with heat pumps etc

What is the nuclear deterrent thing and Rayner?

BIossomtoes · 05/06/2024 10:25

TeenagersAngst · 05/06/2024 10:24

And I know it's not popular to say anything other than nasty things about Liz Truss on here, but she categorically did not crash the economy as KS mentioned a few times and is often trotted out by plenty of people in politics. Her rather unwise mini budget certainly spooked the market and led to a short term spike in bond yields and mortgage rates, but that lasted for less than a month.

She did not crash the economy. Even the BBC say this now.

So why is KS saying it?

Tell that to people whose mortgages are £££ more after her 49 days in office.

TeenagersAngst · 05/06/2024 10:26

That's not the same thing as crashing the economy. Talk is cheap.

Another76543 · 05/06/2024 10:27

BIossomtoes · 05/06/2024 10:23

Wait for the manifesto. In 2019 they were launched 21 (Tory) and 24 (Labour) days before polling day. There’s still 29 days to go.

I can’t understand why the parties are releasing them so close to election day. Manifestos have been getting increasingly longer and the electorate deserve to have time to properly understand them, and people should have time to be able to look in detail as to whether the promises are feasible. It seems to me that neither of the main parties wants there to be enough time for their manifestos to be properly scrutinised.

1dayatatime · 05/06/2024 10:27

@Havanananana

"How could anyone actually have done worse than this shower?"

Sadly I think that's the thinking of most voters at every election where they decide to vote for Party B because surely they can't be any worse than Government B. Yet time and time again when Party B gets into power they are worse and the same thing is said at the next election.

Labour's entire policy is that the Conservatives have screwed up over the last 14 years and therefore you should vote Labour. But without saying what they would do better.

Houseplanter · 05/06/2024 10:28

No ones had enough time to work out the first clue to get us out of this mess.

EasternStandard · 05/06/2024 10:29

TeenagersAngst · 05/06/2024 10:26

That's not the same thing as crashing the economy. Talk is cheap.

It’s a sound bite, despite pp suggesting he didn’t use them he does. Plus it’s incorrect as you say

Summerfreezemakesmedrinkwine · 05/06/2024 10:30

Another76543 · 05/06/2024 10:19

Anyone can stand up and say those things. It’s easy to say in opposition. HOW are they going to do those things? How is it going to be funded? Increased funding means either increased taxes, decreased spending elsewhere or increased borrowing. Private school parents and non doms aren’t the answer to all these spending plans.

Where are they getting the builders, sparkies and plumbers from in this scheme? All these trades are already tapped beyond capacity.

Havanananana · 05/06/2024 10:30

[Truss'] rather unwise mini budget certainly spooked the market and led to a short term spike in bond yields and mortgage rates, but that lasted for less than a month.

The market calmed down once Truss had left - she lasted for less than a month after her harebrained fantasy Trussonomics were rejected by almost every economist, investor and financial expert.

She, and the spike, might have only lasted a month, but people's mortgage repayments will be higher as a result for years to come.

crackofdoom · 05/06/2024 10:31

EasternStandard · 05/06/2024 10:01

Who’s paying for the heat pump rollout?

The cost per house is very high it would be extortionate

Edited

I do not know. Which is why I'm very interested to see what Labour's fully costed manifesto will say, when it's published. Perhaps they'll scrap the Rwanda scheme? I don't know how many grants to install heat pumps £240m would have bought, but I guess it would have been quite a few.

Swipe left for the next trending thread