Tonight's TV debate Sunak v Starmer - any predictions?

[CallingOccupantsOfInterplanetaryCraft]

Anyone up for a watch thread? Maybe even debate bingo. I know I know, don't threaten me with a good time. (Bingo suggestions: natural party of business, Labour has no plan, end the chaos, Rayner will take over, assorted references to Starmer's time as DPP probably blaming for Jimmy Saville again, inflation is down etc etc.)

At this point I seriously doubt anything like this will remotely change the game Nick Clegg style. I read somewhere the only way Sunak could come out of this ahead in the polls is if Starmer pulled off a mask scooby-doo style to reveal he's Jeremy Corbyn, which admittedly would be great telly.

I'm so fed up with the endless rhetoric but will definitely watch later anyway.

I like the debate format. It (should) give them a chance to display their skills in debate, persuasion and public engagement. As PM they’ll spend a lot of time meeting with representatives of other countries and creating deals so I want to see that. Sunak was pushy and cut throat, Starmer was weak and passive.

The private sector wouldn’t be there for a government to use if others didn’t pay to use it.

That wasn't a debate. It was one man shouting a lot. Maybe you like that.

This is from the ITV FactCheck page (I would encourage everyone to go look at it):

"Mr Sunak also claimed that under Labour plans there would be a “retirement tax” coming for British pensioners.

This is based on forecasts showing that under current government policy the state pension is set to rise above the personal allowance for the first time.

Labour says it’ll maintain current government policy, while the Conservatives say they’ll re-establish a higher personal allowance for pensioners, so the state pension does not exceed the income tax threshold. "

"So he’s happy to use the private sector when it suits him, but not for his own family?"

The NHS is forced to use private facilities because of underfunding, staff shortages and a failure to invest in infrastructure.

It is not huge.

The fact that Tories have frozen the income tax personal allowance means that the state pension will soon be higher than the p.a. and those on State Pension only ,(and have no private pensions) who were not previously paying income tax will start to pay it at about £100 a year. Or less, can't remember the exact amount.

Sunak will keep raising the p.a for pensioners so that people on State Pension only never pay income tax. Pensioners with additional pensions will continue to pay income tax on those pensions.

We ve 4 weeks, not 3,

Why would Lab give a heads up to the tories, publishing first? that would be stupid.

Mid june is the expected date, so almost 2.5 weeks before the GE.

Thanks @Pigeon31 . I will watch it myself once broadband stable enough, it keeps going down and hard to read much coverage either as mobile signal poor here. MN just about loads as not many pictures.

I absolutely agree that the NHS is in an unacceptable mess. Something needs to happen to improve it. However, I don’t think you can say on one hand that you wouldn’t pay for private healthcare, and then rely on it in your party pledges, when the private sector only exists because others do pay to use it. They should find a way to clear waiting lists without using a sector they so strongly disagree with.

This thread is quite fascinating as a demonstration of how difficult it is to objectively analyse a single debate without bias/prejudice.

Me and my DD (this will be her first Vote) watched this last night. It was clear from the start that Sunak was given preferential treatment by the useless host. Every time Kier tried to speak he was shut down, and Sunak to waffle on about his imagery Labour polices.

But really got me is how no one is reporting when Sunak said Kier as the former leader of CPS couldn't be trusted as the CPS was a extremist group.

Sunak has no idea what people are living through now, and how every decision he makes in connection to NHS, Education and the continued under funding of local authority.

I would prefer a quieter, measured prime minister with integrity, over a small, shouty, arrogant man whose party has treated the uk population with contempt for the past 14 years. I will be voting Labour.

This.
It’s so annoying when they keep saying it will be in the manifesto.

When one side isn't answering the questions and is actually lying about the opposition, then objectivity goes out the window.

New poll published this morning said Starmer had the better debate.

For me, my number one thought was frustration, the moderation was awful, Starmer also wasn't sharpe enough on picking up Sunaks lies.

Sunak thinks that people who work hard should be able to access better education. But Sunak thinks that only people who are high earners work hard. That’s the bottom line. Vote Tory if you’re minted, otherwise you would be a mug.

Well the Tory party are the ones that called the election obviously, so why haven't they got theirs ready first? Just for context, the Labour party published theirs 3 weeks before the election in 2019, the Tories 3 days later. Not having one published at this stage isn't unusual in British politics. Since 1997, they have been published between 18-29 days before the election, usually within a few days of each other. What's with the panicked face?

The current government borrowed more than Labour did! And they’ve given it all to the rich and have decimated all our public services instead of funding them. I suppose that works for you if you can afford private schools, healthcare and everything else.

Same.

He made no effort to apologise or explain the COVID parties, the profoundly unconstitutional and illegal proroguing of parliament, the dire state of the economy, the dire state of the NHS .

And the only new policy he has come up with is National Service. Which seems a baffling way to reward a generation of young people who spent huge chunks of time at home, missing friends and education, in a pandemic

Just because he had a shiny suit and shouted a lot doesn't make him an impressive leader.

Sunak came across arrogant and smug. Starmer comes across to me as honest and not willing to lie to win an argument on tv. I know who I put my trust in.

Agree about the moderation but the tone of the rest of your post suggests a bit of bias creeping in.

Anyone planning. In voting Tory please make sure you watch Partygate first.

Or maybe they just don't usually come out very early! If they were rushed out everyone would complain they weren't properly costed etc.

Yes, agreed. That, right there is the fundamental flaw of Tory politics. If you’re poor, or not a high earner it’s your own fault because you didn’t work hard enough(!)

It’s hardly a heads up. 2 weeks isn’t enough. They should release now and campaign hard. Get in there first and look like they’re taking it all seriously

I fully appreciate and resent that 14 years of tories has led to where we are now. What I can’t get past is that Labour have had the same amount of time to create their own policies and build a viable alternative government with a strong leader.

I watched last night to see what Labour is going to do and to happily watch Sunak be held to account. Starmer was awful, said nothing, and got his arse handed to him. It was like he hadn’t prepared and was relying on old soundbites that everyone has had enough of. He was so lazy it was offensive.

I now officially have no one to vote for. Urgh.