ok, lets actually have a quick vote on the Compulsory National Service at 18 idea

[cannonballz]

I dont think any of the threads running have an actual poll. I can't believe anyone would go along with enforced labour of 18 year olds, particularly when dictated by someone so immensely wealthy, privileged and so utterly out of touch.

Lets see

Anyone who's dealt with work experience knows that the benefit is generally to the trainee and not to the employer. Even in the best circumstances it's a lot of work and when the kid is unwilling or unable to engage it can be an utter nightmare.

The government is mad if they think charities and other organisations have the time or ability to deal with bored, resentful teenagers every weekend - ironically it will probably put off genuine volunteers as well.

I have children that are of an age that will be affected by this if it happens. And i think its a great idea. Frankly, its what the independent schools do anyway - my kids have been volunteering for months for various worthy causes as its good for uni ps's and gives work experience / something to talk about at interview. Plenty of kids out there that would benefit.

In favour so long as it was properly organised, funded, and well run, with the financial needs and employment situation on the young people taken into account (so rent paid if they don't live with their parents any more, and if currently employed they must be guaranteed their job back afterwards).
So basically, if the Tories have their hands anywhere near it, I am fully against it, otherwise it could be a good scheme.

Bet the armed forces senior bods are really up for this - not.

Ridiculous idea - used to be trotted out in the 1970s / early 80s as a way to fire up the old school tory supporters. It was a stupid suggestion then and a ridiculous one now.

If the security situation is dire enough, we should be increasing numbers in the regular armed forces. The armed forces are stretched enough without being responsible for 'toughen' up teenagers. The money this would cost would be much better spent on schools and mental health services for youngsters.

Things like National Service only work if there is a genuine sense of “everyone in society is doing their bit and pulling together.”

The baby boom generation (at the macro level; of course it contains many wonderful and enlightened individuals including my own parents) have blocked housing at every turn, voted for Brexit, helped themselves to nice fat triple lock pensions and shown very little gratitude for the sacrifices that the young made for them during Covid.

I’d be very surprised if the young felt like doing any volunteering on their behalf.

Some wag on Twitter was suggesting that maybe the Tories’ real reason for trying to ban smoking for the young was to keep their lungs and hearts in pristine condition, ready for a nice bit of organ harvesting. I can see what they mean.

So you've volunteered at your local charity shop to help a good cause and meet people.

Now you're told that you'll be supervising a disaffected teenager who resents being there. Your job is to motivate them and find jobs for them to do. Why would you want to do that?

Maybe the intention is to use National Service to fill jobs like care worker vacancies. Including filling the 40"000 vacancies caused by their Covid vaccine mandate. Wouldnt be the first time they use the public to pay for their mistakes

They do it. There is a compulsory 2weeks work experience in secondary schools and various other schemes.
And not all of them are rude and insolent. it’s unfair generalization.
There are rude and insolent people of all ages round.

They can't even get employers to agree to do the 45 days work experience for the tiny numbers doing TLevels. They have no chance of this.

Fucking mental idea and clearly not thought through, students at FE/HE ? how will they fit in studies and volunteering? what happens to those on placements???

Conscripted armies are shit, look at the Argentinian armed forces against the UK ?

As we never heard of this suggestion before from this Govt, you can bet it was dreamt up on Saturday afternoon, after a few G&T's

Quite aside from the gargantuan task of organising and staffing it all, there's the question of what they will actually do if kids or parents refuse, or if kids just don't show up. They aren't doing a great job of getting kids to go to school, never mind this!

Can't believe the "teenagers are rude/lazy" comments. Generalisation/ageist much?! My eldest child is balancing his studies with a part time job and is a bloody decent human being thank you very much even I do say so myself.

Todays 18 year olds were 2020s 14 year olds. Sacrificed enough during the lockdowns

Hear hear!

18 is the minimum age limit isn’t it.

So I assume that also means we’re all expected to volunteer our time to serve?

I suspect those in favour of 18yos doing it, won’t be so quick to jump at the chance of volunteering themselves.

I think everyone should be encouraged to volunteer for a good cause but the majority of 18+ work FT, have kids or study and work PT.

I’m early 30s and I’m physically able but I’m a single parent, work FT, study in the evenings and already volunteer for a cause of my own choosing.
I barely have enough time to do anything else and I don’t know how I would cope with any more demands of my time.

How are young people supposed to cope with the COL if they’re expected to work less because they’re volunteering.

It’s not been thought through at all.

I’m horrified anyone likes the idea 😮

Teenagers these days are just rude and insolent. They need some form of socialisation

Watch all of the videos of people being rude to others for no reason.
Ask any person who works in retail or a restaurant.
Ask any person of colour, a non Christian religion or someone who is gay.

It is not the majority of young people who are the rude generation.

"I would there were no age between ten and
three-and-twenty, or that youth would sleep out the rest, for there is nothing in the between but getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting"

For those who think teenagers today are just lazy, disrespectful, violent ne'er do wells.

Where's that quotation from please, @TheMoth ?

Ive heard a lot of garbage about this today. About how young people need a sense of community. Fucking piss take. Just heard "there is no patriotism amongst the young ones" Well of course there fucking isnt. Where is the council housing and the NHS that the youngsters in the 1940s came back to. Its GONE. And instead of "thankyou for all the sacrifices you made during the lockdowns" its this..

I said back in April 2020 that the public wouldnt get thanked and whatever the public sacrifice it will never be enough.

And here we are!

The Winter 's Tale. The Shepherd bemoaning the state of youth.

No they don’t, the Independent schools don’t do that on a whole at all!

Even off the top of my head I can think of plenty of practical issues.

Who's going to pay for DBS checking? How far would someone be expected to travel and who pays the cost? What happens when the conscript turns up and refuses to do anything? Will the paid staff in an organisation get extra money for dealing with the conscripts and what if they refuse to take on the responsibility? Who pays for all the admin of recording the conscripts hours and possible non attendance? What happens when a co script wants to do a role for which they turn out to be totally unsuited?

James Cleverly was going on about how this was to encourage young people to mix with different groups - how? If I go and work in my local charity shop then funnily enough I meet people who also live on my estate!

I don't think the people cheering this have the faintest idea how much work is involved. I work for a public body that uses a lot of volunteers - some are great, some are OK and a few are more trouble than they're worth. And that's with people who've chosen to be there.

NS and maths aswell?

Two thirds of adults don't volunteer, I'd prefer them to get involved in their communities willingly rather than compel school leavers to give up their plans.
Bearing in mind the first cohort affected would be those who started y7 as COVID struck and have had so many freedoms and opportunities denied them.