ok, lets actually have a quick vote on the Compulsory National Service at 18 idea

[cannonballz]

I dont think any of the threads running have an actual poll. I can't believe anyone would go along with enforced labour of 18 year olds, particularly when dictated by someone so immensely wealthy, privileged and so utterly out of touch.

Lets see

And frankly everyone needs to learn that we are all part of society, and being part of society doesn't just mean having rights, it also means having responsibilities and obligations.

I could get behind this if society was giving something back to our kids. National service in places like Denmark is being touted as a great success, but the difference there is marked. They give their kids free education, generous sick pay, a functioning health service, subsidised youth sport and music schemes-then housing allowances, subsidised childcare and generous parental leave to look forward to. I can see why they have a pride in their country and would be happy to give something back.

What are we giving our kids? Schools that are falling down, tens of thousands of pounds of student dept which rises by the day and then to look forward to, they’ll have a very slim chance of getting on the housing ladder and paying childcare fees and then working till they’re 68+, when they might be able to retire (if fingers crossed, they haven’t got ill in the meantime).

In our household, there is only one person who this would affect, and they are the only person not eligible to vote. Luckily the rest of us will all be voting to get the Tories out :).

There are other obligations in society besides paying taxes and obeying the law. For instance the obligation to help people when there's an accident (call emergency services, provide first aid, warn others of the accident e.g. road accident), or to call the police if you see someone getting attacked (or intervene if you feel its safe to do so)

Definitely agree the UK needs to sort things out, and provide a much better system. But people thinking they don't owe each other and society anything is not going to make the system better - we improve things at the ballot box and in our own actions.

And forced volunteering will do absolutely nothing at all to make people do these things when they aren't being taught to do them at home, by their parents and wider friends and family.

Besides, this is just more of the 'young people of today' nonsense - the vast majority of people I know, young and old, will already do the things you list. Making them do forced voluntary work isn't going to change the ones that won't. You seem to be one of the people who are convinced that today's young people are somehow worse than they used to be. I'm sorry if your environment makes that real for you; it isn't reflected everywhere. I live in a small town with high levels of social and economic deprivation, and yet the vast majority of young people we turn out are decent and sociable.

You don't create a better society by 'compulsory volunteering' (and no, I will never get over what a stupid term that is). You create a better society by investing in its people from birth upwards and in all its aspects. The UK has completely failed at this.

My area isn't bad at all - I don't live in the UK. I live in a country where these obligations are made clear from a young age - you can face prison if you don't help in an accident or violence situation. The young people around my way are pretty alright, probably part in thanks to this understanding in society here. Indeed when I had an accident on my bike two children on their way to school stopped to help me.

And I live in the UK, where there are no such obligations. Weirdly enough, the young people my way are also alright. And yes, we get daily reports of young people stopping to help when there have been accidents, older people having falls etc. There's more than one way to achieve a good outcome in society.

the right wingers are all for this now. Wait till some of them realise they will have to give their young employees a weekend off every month.

If this does come into effect it's not going to be in place by the time my eldest is 18. It would be by the time my youngest is 18 though. I have serious doubts about "national service". I highly doubt it would be the same for all kids. I doubt the tory MPs children would have the same experiences as mine. I have a massive problem with our children being forced to do free labour in services this government has cut to the bone. All so they can give themselves a pat on the back ...

Was compulsory when I was in 6th form, at least in my school. Every Tuesday afternoon you had to volunteer somewhere (or volunteer on an evening or weekend to replace the Tuesday afternoon). Don't they still do that?

The school my dcs went to/are at in y12 no lessons are scheduled on Wednesday afternoons and you either do sport, volunteering (often helping younger pupils in the same school but some go elsewhere, particularly future medical/healthcare applicants) or some sort of “enrichment” such as moocs.
Neither of my older children went to their school 6th form - they went to different colleges where there was no such schemes. They both did volunteering though - one, unenthusiastically, for DofE gold and because he wanted (needed) something to write about on the UCAS application. One, more joyfully, because it was a way to get valuable experience for a niche future career. Both could be flexible about what hours they could do, could choose a place relevant to their interests and future studies/careers, and didn’t have to take time off work to do it. It’s a completely different scenario to having to take one in 4 weekends off work to do some sort of compulsory unpaid work after you have left school and you have bills to pay. People who have been volunteering all the way through y12/13 are still going to have to do this. For many it may mean giving up a volunteering post that they enjoy and are good at to take up a government mandated weekend one in a completely different area. How will people feel when their kids swimming coach or football coach misses training once a month to do litter picking or some cleaning in a police station or whatever the fuck they are going to get them to do? What will happen to sportspeople generally? Are 18yos signed to professional football clubs going to need every 4th weekend off, or is it just for basic kids like mine who are working weekends on minimum wage to pay their rent at uni?

I suppose there are a lot of things that people should know about and how to manage. First aid, how to write a cv, how to manage minor illnesses e.g. diarrhoea and vomiting and a cough, how to budget, how to cook, basic car maintenance, when to put the bins out and how to find out what time Tesco is open.

Before anyone says "my children can do that" you only have to read threads on Mumsnet and posts on Facebook to realise not every adult can do what your children can. Perhaps the "training" should start soon for the next generation.

The one weekend a month plan is absolutely ridiculous, the worst way of doing civilian service, for all the reasons you stated Zwicky and more.

For many it may mean giving up a volunteering post that they enjoy and are good at to take up a government mandated weekend one in a completely different area

Yes they think we have forgotten about the Cait Reilly Poundland case.

Many of the kids I teach resent having to go to school, as it's a 'waste of my time when I just want to go and get a job", so good luck reaching those.

And broadening their horizons is bollocks. It'll be like work experience- you go where you know people, so much of it will still depend on your socio economic background.

I reckon we'll be getting a bonkers suggestion per week until the election. I really don't think they want to win this one. Labour will get in, won't be able to sort the mess in 5 years, tories will have regrouped and cry:"ha ha, told you so!" And we'll get another 10- 20 years of tories, before the cycle continues.

Even if people think this is a good idea, I can't see it being implemented well, if at all.

What happened with the crazy maths idea?

I can't speak for you and your parenting, if you have children, but my DC - and almost all of the children/young people I know (except for some 'problem' children at my DC's school) are indeed being brought up with discipline and respect, and are thus very pleasant young people (obviously not perfect in everything, just like we older people are not).

I also encounter plenty of middle-aged/older/elderly people who are rude, disrespectful and anti-social, whom I personally would gladly send off for some of these enforced 'community-minded' tasks, if it were possible and if I thought it would do any good.

I'd be in favour of the state taking over and introducing discipline and character-building activities and routines for the small minority of young people whose parents have clearly failed them - it may well help to reduce future prison populations - but if we're going from a point of assumed hopelessness/unwillingness of ALL parents, we really might as well just turn off all the lights and close the country down now.

Yes, indeed. When the government enforce it, it's 'compulsory personal enrichment by serving in the community' or whatever; but whenever anybody else tries it, we rightly identify it with just one word that begins with an 'S'.

Ironically, we just saw some of a programme about thieves taking items from the British Museum! One rule for them; quite another for everybody else!

Both of these things would be a good idea if implemented ànd funded properly which they won't be. A 'British Standard' qualification like the Scottish Highers but more flexible, with maths to 18 but different types of maths- a functional skills qualification for some and gcse type academic maths for others, and maybe some work experience or volunteering as part of it either at the weekend or school holidays in year 10 and 12 would be OK I think. But 18 is too old. 18 year olds have other things to do like actual paid jobs or university and often both.

And another thing. Who's going to be taking all these kids to their voluntary work etc? There are 4 high schools within 6 miles of each other here. So that's about 1000 kids all needing placements at the same time. Presumably not all of them will be in walking distance. Public transport round here is shit unless you're going in a straight line once an hour between 7am and 8pm.

I was far too busy from the age of 16 if do any volunteering.
I was: working at weekends
In school all week
On the pull every Saturday night.

It didn't stop me becoming a responsible member of society. It's weird though, because helping other people seems like such a socialist thing to do.

Jim Hacker had the idea first!

In my work the rudest people are the elderly . Some litterally shout when they don’t get their own way .

They don’t want young people to drive or share cars either do they? Don’t expect any joined up thinking.

Its the biggest load of bollocks I have ever heard. Clearly dreamt up by someone who had mummy and daddy lining their pockets or getting free education so didnt need to actually work themselves so had 'free time' to 'volunteer'. Load of actual shite.
A better idea might be to get those on job seekers for more than 6 months doing a couple of days a month volunteer work, this would give them work experience if they have none and maybe an incentive to actually get a job as the volunter work would be shite (because, lets face it, the Police arent going to be giving anyone a set of handcuffs to be let loose to run around the community arresting people are they! It will be some worthless made up bollocks that someone dreams up to tick a box)

But they do want them to volunteer delivering prescriptions....

well, the royal mail can deliver prescriptions, and are a lot better at it than a random teenager! I suspect a lot of prescriptions will go missing....