ok, lets actually have a quick vote on the Compulsory National Service at 18 idea

[cannonballz]

I dont think any of the threads running have an actual poll. I can't believe anyone would go along with enforced labour of 18 year olds, particularly when dictated by someone so immensely wealthy, privileged and so utterly out of touch.

Lets see

It’s going to cost £2bn. Irrespective of whether it is a good idea or not, why would you introduce such an expensive lifestyle change without first seeing if people wanted it? That fact alone speaks volumes for how incompetent the tories are and their attitude to the people.

Yes this is the issue. It is aimed at kids who are not in full time education. So what about people with jobs? Why dont students at Uni do a weekend a month civil duty? Apart from the fact that most need to work at the weekend to pay for themselves at uni?
Are they expecting cyber security experts to take their weekends off to train some teenagers?
As usual, some scheme will be made up that is not properly thought through and chronically underfunded, so wont work.
This is something Sunak knows he will not have to do. All he is trying to do is shore up the Tory base of over 70 year olds so that the Tory party doesn't completely collapse. he knows he will never have to do it.

Clutching desperately at any old straw.

Ridiculous idea.

Yes my 16 has a job lined up for the weekends when he finishes his GCSES and he volunteers with the scouts. I doubt his Saturday job employer ( in retail, like most young people who do Saturday jobs) is going to give him one saturday off a month to do compulsory volunteering. Its pie in the sky!

There have been many examples of 18 year olds this not working - one post medical student doing placement , studying , working for living expenses .
18 year olds in employment that includes weekends .

what about 18 year olds pregnant .

what about 18 year olds with criminal records who would take them .

The cost and the fact it is one weekend a month even if they could do this it would be like community service for criminals .

Also does this start the day they are 18 or at the end of year12 because firstly lots Jo on gap years and if it happened on the day 18 many would actually need to be revising for A levels

I’m sure a few people would be able to find some benefits from this scheme!

The snowflakes would have a meltdown as would the mummies - we just don't have the cohort of young people who can even tolerate this - non- starter

Omfg. Lots go on gap years! Get a grip

As ever, the first post nails it.

Also, this made me laugh this morning.

It doesn’t matter what the options are. It is mandatory for certain age and would restrict their liberties.
It was also mentioned that it’s for those who are not in employment and in education so it looked like a free slavery for me. Rich people will send their children to uni whereas the poor will have to do free compulsory volunteering “to get out of their bubble”. If they are not in education or work they need help to be in education or work, they need paid jobs not free volunteering options.

And I absolutely loathe this argument that young people should “get out of their bubble” . How dare Tories say this!
Young people nowadays work and volunteer, they are much more compassionate, caring, understanding and honest that these selfish and arrogant Conservative gang.
And before someone will say, I have no personal interest whatsoever in this. None of us in this house would be affected.
I met a lot of young people who were volunteering in groups my DD attended ( disability related) and I appalled on behalf of them.

A weekend a month volunteering is one of the options which can be in ones local community. It doesn't appear to have the complete association with war that we are giving it. Doing national service working in Cyber Crime for example would be a great way into a job. I don't think it's meant to be like Israel for example.

It's all a bit moot anyway - I can't see it winning any new votes , people who do the "kids these days bit of national service " froth i would imagine may be voting conservative anyway?

I'm torn really.

On one hand it's a ridiculous, unfair idea to impose on a generation already struggling to cope with a society unfit to meet their needs.

On the other hand, a rifle trained working class might come in really handy when the revolution comes.

Exactly, if spending your weekends litter-picking is so character-building, I assume you are already doing it yourself? If not why not, there are lots of opportunities. Go on your local “Friends of Xx Park” website and you too can volunteer to pick litter. No national scheme required.

I think something similar should be effectively set up for young people but it shouldn't be for anyone who is working, studying, apprenticed, or travelling abroad

So that excludes 99% of them. What is the point of setting up a scheme to force the minority of 18 year olds not in any kind of education, training or employment to do enforced litter picking or hospital portering one day a month? It would cost a fortune, and I am struggling to see any benefits at all for society, the NHS (or wherever they are placed) or the young people in question.

Thanks for the gratuitous insult! I live in a country where this has happened. You are beyond naive if you think money can’t buy you a ticket out of a situation like this - it happens all over the world. Yes, you might not be able to request a diagnosis at the moment but you can bet your life that if compulsory national service comes in, people will find loopholes - and doctors willing to help them. How is this thick, ignorant or goady? Or would you like to rethink the way you addressed me?

My right-wing, farage-fanatic, Brexit-loving Boomer father who has been parroting "bring back national service" since around 1999 will be popping the good champagne.
FML.

I don’t think for one minute they will be able to get this organised. However, compulsory military service for two years - no I would not I would not support that. But a territorial army type program with a certain number of weekends a year with training in engineering ect and community benefitting projects why not

My 18 year olds are at University. Their time is already fully committed thank you Mr Sunak.

Might be a clever move by the Tories though - its stopped us all raging about all the harm they've caused over the last 14 years because we're distracted by this latest bit of fuckwittery.

A lot of these comments are from people who probably have decent kids and don't want the government to force their precious kids to do something they don't want to do.

You say it like I should want the government to force my precious kids to do something they don’t want to do. I don’t want that. Why would I? It will fuck up a year of their lives for no good reason.

tbh I think the military element is fine. There are only 30000 places, it will end up being quite competitive and the military will only end up with those who want to be there and who are physically and psychologically capable.

The compulsory volunteering is a bag of shite. It’s hard enough for people doing DofE to find volunteering opportunities. Finding and coordinating and supervising places for volunteers who don’t want to volunteer will be a gigantic pita. The NHS does not want a bunch of untrained volunteers - a new group nearly every weekend, and then the first group is back having forgotten everything. What are they supposed to do? Will they be taking the cleaners jobs or the HCAs? Maybe some band 2 admin staff could be fired to free up some work. Will they be patient facing? What will they do with the police? Will they be responding to crimes? Mopping the floors? What? Will they be putting out fires? What about 18yo who already work in the police, NHS or fire service? Will they just do their normal shift but not get paid? How are other businesses supposed to manage with their young employees needing every 4th weekend off? As a hospitality employer, I won’t be taking anyone one until they have finished the year, it’s bad for my business. It would be better if it was a 2 week block and your employer had to release you - like jury duty.

This is how it will pan out for mine

dc1 - was a student at 18. Y13 followed by uni in a different town. Medical exemption for military service so will have to do the volunteering, but where? Does he defer his place so he can finish it at home, or start at home, then have to find a new place up in his uni town? A place that has 50000 18 year olds moving to it in the same week in September as well as it’s static population. What about students who don’t have accommodation over the holidays? They will be back and forth like yo-yos. Who is paying for the travel? Who pays for lunch while you are doing your day? Dc1 works in hospitality and does around 20 hours over the weekend - plus is fed for free. He needs this money to live on because he is an actual adult - who will compensate for this? - It’s around £230 gross and he actually needs it for rent. What about if he can’t get the weekend off? What are the consequences for binning off volunteering for paid work?

dc2 turned 18 the first week of y13. I’m assuming they allow you to finish your A-levels but maybe not. No medical exemption for the military but unlikely to get a place if it’s competitive. Dc2 is staying at college to do an art foundation course. If she spends a year in the military then she can’t do it - the funding means she has to do it straight after y13 (same for anyone on a 3y course or anyone who spends 3 years at college for any reason such as resits or illness). She would lose her university place. She’s hoping for a London uni so needs to work every spare minute to save up to go. Should she be £200 a month down because 2 of the only 8 days a month she can work she is conscripted to volunteer? She won’t get a place anyway, without the foundation year so that’s her career fucked, but at least the local police station had her propping the walls up for 25 days.

dc3 - not 18 yet but set for a military career anyway. Not sure if having it compulsory will be better or worse. Will he still get a place? It’s hard enough as it is. Will he get paid? Are the same apprenticeships going to be available?

dc4 - too young to know but is likely to either go to uni at 18, so will be in the same boat as dc1, or go into full time work - so will have to work 12 days on the trot once a month as her weekend is now gone. Travel plans with friends, concerts, festivals all those things “ohhh, that’s on my fire engine cleaning weekend…I can’t come” . What if she works weekends? Will they get someone else to give up their weekend to cover so an 18 yo can do compulsory volunteering? Will she even be able to get a job? Wouldn’t an employer rather have a 19yo?

But I’m weird for not wanting this for my precious dc?

Lots of 18 year olds do voluntary service for d of e or citizenship classes, I volunteered all the way through uni for nightline (like a student version of the Samaritans) and actually it made a big difference in me getting into the career I've chosen. I also worked and studied at an RG university. 25 days volunteering isn't a lot and could give lots of young people access to skills but also environments and people outside of their usual comfort zone or exposure

But a territorial army type program with a certain number of weekends a year with training in engineering ect and community benefitting projects why not

Because most of them already work weekends. Students overwhelmingly work in jobs that allow weekend shifts. Enormous numbers of non student 18yo work in retail, hospitality, care, and service industries which include weekend working.