Mandatory National Service for 18 yr olds Sunak decrees

[Heavenssakes]

How do you feel about mandatory National Service for 18 year olds - Sunak says he will introduce it if he wins election.

This is so not what I want for my DC, nor something they want to do. 1 years military service, when they have worked hard towards getting into Uni, and developing a career?

It's like steppng back into the 1950s.

Only saving grace, I can't imagine the forces wanting or being able to deal with thousands of press-ganged kids.

I fear for Sunak's sanity.

https://news.sky.com/story/sunak-says-he-will-bring-back-national-service-if-tories-win-general-election-13143184

Experience tells me that people who have "volunteered" to take part in something that someone else thinks is good for them, always does it with enthusiasm and good grace.

Have I understood correctly that if you have joined the army by the time you are 18 you have to put that on hold to do National Service?

Exactly.

It's not volunteering if it's not voluntary.

But its not paid, and so that makes it volunteering. Much like slaves volunteer I guess.

I’m astounded that Sunak thinks this is a good idea.
If anything , I’d imagine lots of 18 year olds who otherwise wouldn’t have voted will vote for other parties.

Seems like a good way to throw an election.

Just flipping it , what if Russia does pose a real threat and countries in Europe have realised that their military isn’t big enough to combat this- if it came to it?

The British army as it is , isn’t big enough to deal with a land war.

Well, Russia IS a big threat and many countries are realising they have been far too complacent.

The fear of Russia is why we are testing our new weapons & tanks in Ukraine on the Russians.

And a bit in Gaza on Palestinians. Our 1% is still over 350 deaths.

Paul2023 · Yesterday 21:47
I’m astounded that Sunak thinks this is a good idea.
If anything , I’d imagine lots of 18 year olds who otherwise wouldn’t have voted will vote for other parties.
**
Seems like a good way to throw an election”

”Doesn’t it just? Beginning to seriously wonder if this whole election is a great big fuck you to his “colleagues” before he pops back over the pond.

Isn't that the entire purpose of NATO, though - that the combined military might of NATO countries IS plenty strong enough to fight Russia (or China, for that matter, should they decide to start anything)?

It's a bit more evenly-matched in terms of numbers if nuclear weapons are used - but it would probably be game-over for most of the world then, so it's purely academic anyway.

Only if the US stays in NATO is the combined military power comparable to Russia or China. If Russia and China make their own ATO, NATO would not have the advantage.

Too it is not all about military superiority- resources, supply lines, strategy…a smaller military force can beat a larger one. So Russia and China would still hesitate taking on NATO

It's all Dr Phil and the teenage boot camps 😂

Is the US considering leaving NATO?!

I know that NATO is currently pretty much 'USA & pals', granted!

Don’t panic, Trump was running his mouth about it at one point but it’s a little bit more complicated than he likes to make out.

Trump almost left NATO because other countries haven’t been funding their fair share. If he is re-elected, then there is a good chance Trump may take a second attempt at pulling out of NATO- he has been making overtures on the campaign trail.

”former President Donald Trump said he’d let Russia "do whatever the hell they want" to NATO nations that didn’t pay for collective defense, he alarmed world leaders”

https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/mar/06/is-donald-trumps-nato-talk-a-negotiating-tactic-or/

I don’t think Trump can just pull out of NATO can he ?

Still convinced RS trying to create social/community “engagement” for youth who might not be fully employed or in education. Also, perhaps targeting new/first generation who are not integrating outside of community.

Talk yesterday about Apprenticeship programs and eliminating “waste of money” Uni degrees.

Trying to get some youth into tax-paying economy? Keep busy & out of trouble?.

Well I don’t think there’s anything in wrong in installing discipline and a purpose for young people.

In some ways I can see some good can come from it.

But it’s the timing of this idea and it seems rather desperate to just pluck this idea out of think air.

I also think that people are thinking of the old days of national service when young men were sent to an army camp
for 2 years to get shouted at and march up and down a parade square.

Of the few older people I’ve ever spoken to about national service , most of them hated it and couldn’t wait to leave.

People say the elderly would vote for this. Most of whom never had to do National Service themselves, as no one born from 1940 onwards, had to as it had ended, like some of my uncles. Also women were exempt, so probably very few people remaining who actually did it. So any men aged 84 plus.

People would be hypocritical to vote for it. Rishi is just trying to get the grey vote, hence this pension tax relief he wants to bring in.

But let's bring in laws for people who have no say in the matter, because they're too young to vote.

Maybe the conservatives are ensuring they're voted out of government come July 4th.

Not anymore as a bill passed on Dec 2023 that states the president “shall not suspend, terminate, denounce, or withdraw the United States from the North Atlantic Treaty….without either a supermajority vote in the Senate or an act passed by the full Congress.”

He could unilaterally reduce NATO defence funding down to $0 though through budget veto power. Then the Supreme Court could decide if that went against the above language.

Trump was just found guilty on all 12 counts of his hush money trial. Sentencing is pending. He can still run for President even though now a convicted felon. He is going to appeal and I doubt his sentence will be a custodial one. But if it were a custodial sentence (not suspended), can’t imagine anyone running for President while in prison! 🤪

I would expect the Republicans to pick another candidate.

But let's bring in laws for people who have no say in the matter, because they're too young to vote.

Brexit was the same btw. Voting to leave was mostly by pensioners who would be unaffected either way but the young who have been most affected were too young to vote then. Also all the expats were excluded from voting too.

It is a good Tory stunt to propose an idea where you can stack the votes by ensuring the most negatively affected cannot vote.

Bringing in laws that impact people who have no say in the matter is an intractable problem though. What about prisoners? Don’t see many people getting too concerned about that!

Not officially, but the US president is the supreme commander in chief of the US forces, they answer only to him/her, and not some sort of NATO centralised command.
NATO members are formally obliged to react to a triggering of Art 5 of a NATO member, say an Eastern European country, but in practice it well might amount to sending thoughts and prayers.

Awful policy. It should be choice not mandatory. People in the services should fave decent pay so recruitment would rise but not force people in.

Exactly, so the people it apparently appeals to never did it themselves