National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

I agree. I saw a similar piece a while ago. Our public are v low quality

Maybe it's a money-making exercise. In some countries with National Service, you can pay your way out of it. Maybe Rishi is banking on us all paying to de-enlist our children.

'Gammon vote'. I loathe the term gammon it should be be seen as any other slur regarding the colour of people's skin and just not used. Imagine if someone said 'mop up the <insert any other insulting term regarding skin colour> vote.

oddly enough I have just created a poll / thread on this! It’s in the GE topic… will he stay in post and what else could go wrong?

About 48-50 million people 18+ in UK. Who do you think will go through the records and make a medical decision about fitness to take part?

He's not very tech savvy though is he. Didn't he struggle with his Whatsapps? Changing his phone meant he lost the lot. Convenient.

Plus France has nukes and Russia or China will have invaded a NATO country at that point so Article 5 applies. Anyway as others have said Russia has had more than enough trouble with Ukraine and Putin may be bad (he is!) but he is not mad.

We are going round in circles! I mentioned the channel tunnel in reply to the suggestion that we are an island. We aren't. And even if we are it doesn't mean we cannot be physically attacked or invaded. That's my point. Yes I agree the Russians have targeted us in ways that are not using an army. But it doesn't mean that they won't or can't in the future. Do you think we are some sort of impregnable fortress? With secure borders and a population of 67 million people who support the UK. Actually, thinking that we probably are stuffed.

I don't think boomers had it easier than Gen X. It's different. I was born in 1969 too and about 25% of my cohort went on to higher education, far more of the group than would have been the case for boomers. As we were in the UK class was still a huge deciding factor - still is.

Maybe the person who exempted Trump because of his poorly foot.

When I see the amount of 18 yr olds hanging around smoking spliffs or of their head on booze I actually think there are some reasonable points to this.
A lot of the youth today have lost their way and I say this as the mum of a 16 yr old dd.
A lot of her peers just want to get high and post shit on tik tok.
Mental health in young ppl is terrible right now there is no structure for them in society they just sit on screens or go and get drunk in the park.

Ignoring the military aspect - at 18 I was either in full time education with a weekend job (every Saturday plus two Sundays a month) or I was in medical
school (admittedly I turned 19 a couple of months in and had no weekend job but I worked in the holidays). Where are the 25 days volunteering going to come from? They've already said they’d be unpaid so I’d be expected to sacrifice a quarter of my monthly paycheck? That money was pretty necessary 15 odd years ago and with the cost of living etc it would be absolutely essential now! Why would anybody even employ me as a teenager knowing that I’d need the time off? Rishi Sunak’s kids aren’t going to need part time work to keep themselves afloat whilst studying.

Also enjoying the standard responses of young people today have no discipline, are rude etc. I asked an older (probably 60s) man on the train last week if he could move his backpack off the priority seat so I could sit down (he was reading the telegraph so presumably who this policy is aimed at…) as I’m 8 months pregnant. He point blank refused. Thankfully there were a group of teenage lads slightly further down the train who overheard and immediately helped fined me a seat whilst loudly talking about how rude people are these days…There are rude and unpleasant people across the age ranges!

Do you think you're a more capable, more resilient person for having had these experiences? Or the opposite - that they damaged you in some way?

Do you think that a teenager who perhaps has low confidence and poor mental health and who has never had the opportunity to test themselves would get something out of such an experience?

I'm not arguing for some kind of punishment or pointless mind-numbing labour for kids - I genuinely think that allowing kids to experience how resilient and resourceful they have the capacity to be is a great thing and that it can do wonders for confidence. If you've done something really hard, you can look at a different situation and think "this is not as hard as that, and I got through that ok".

I guess everyone has their own biases - personally, I have gained a lot of resilience through being in extreme/endurance situations and I do think others should be awarded the same opportunity to surprise themselves.

Anyone remember HamCam's 'Big Society'?
Came to nothing but it was just free labour to cover gaps caused by authority anyway.

I'm not laughing at your lack of public transport, but Norman Tebbit (and his present day counterparts) certainly would. If you're obliged to report to the barracks at ridiculous o' clock and you have no car or bus route, that's going to be your problem. I suggest we all ask this question, and others, of our local Tory candidates. It will reveal either a carelessness about detail (as you seem to assume?) or a callous disregard for those with the least resources (as I assume). Neither is a good look on the campaign trail.

The Scandinavian countries have this, many of them work in schools, care facilities and general maintenance of the country. Our friends are proud to have served and are happy their kids are too.

Not sure it's right for the UK but it's not a mad idea

Same people who I’d expect to be doing it for the 18 year olds. It doesn’t have to be everyone all at once does it.

Why does it feel like you’re looking for an excuse for anyone except 18 year olds to do it? Funny that.

Interesting that most posters who have knowledge / experience of NS setups in other countries are broadly much less hostile to the idea.

I agree - but that is not what this is. You are talking about funded, organised, established, skilled National programmes in countries where there is a culture that values them.

This is a cheap gimmick to win Tory voters, no planning or resources behind it, no clear purpose or structure, in a country that values nothing much except fast food, alcohol, drugs, porn, entitlement and idleness.

We are indeed going round in circles, because you started from the premise that a completely implausible prospect is one we have to plan for, because hey it happened in Ukraine. It's not.

Russia absolutely cannot successfully mount a land invasion of the UK. That means wasting time and resources on planning for one is stupid and damaging. If things change enough to make it plausible at some point, then obviously we'd change the policy. But you cannot have a viable national defence strategy based on things that we can't prove won't happen at some unspecified point in the future.

lt would just be horrific for my ASD dd.

And would make mental health problems worse.

Excellent points.

God, I hate the "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" philosophy.

There's a fine line between stronger and harder, and the latter can suck all joy out of your life and kill empathy. I know. I've been there. The only thing that surprises me about my "resilience" is that I'm not an alcoholic, rocking in the corner of a padded cell or going actively postal most days. I wouldn't wish that that on anyone else in the hope a kitten and a unicorn will pop out eventually 🙄

To be fair I had a look at DM comments and they are not pleased. At all.

He’s done this to appease potential Reform voters, who are as thick as mince. Farage and his mates gave us Brexit which wrecks the economy and increases illegal immigration, so the answer is to vote for them?

Maybe some of the 18 year olds we've conscripted can be put to work doing it.