Page 28 | National Service if Tories are re-elected

GiantTagliatelle · 26/05/2024 09:56

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:45

Ok, but that should include people of all ages. Anyone refusing to get involved should be denied benefits, including the state pension. Perhaps with an exemption for those few who did national service last time round.

Show quote history

Yup.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:57

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 26/05/2024 09:51

But what about the cyber attacks you talk about? Maybe the Russians could jam any detonation!? And it's not as if our borders down there are 100% secure....

Look I hope you are right. And if you are trying to convince yourself its going to be OK I apologise if I seem to be trying to worry you. But there's no guarantees in the world, especially at the moment and I just think we need to be better prepared than we are. That's all x

Show quote history

Yeah, I am right. The Russians invading France to invade us through the Channel Tunnel hasn't got the remotest chance of happening. We need to focus on and protect ourselves on the actual risks, which do not include a 7th October style land invasion. Pretending it does would make us less secure, not more.

Proserphina · 26/05/2024 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Not quite sure who is being thick a mince here as 'they' are doing precisely nothing other than spinning a yarn with words like 'army' and 'security' and 'national' in it. It's a word game during an election.

RobinEllacotStrike · 26/05/2024 09:57

Imagine if this actually happened.

The actual demise of the UK brought about by "death by moaning".

Strangely befitting.

MistyGreenAndBlue · 26/05/2024 09:57

G123456789 · 25/05/2024 22:57

Whilst I agree with you on principle get over the boomers bullshit.

Let's look at me and my pier group shall we 242 kids sat in my school hall in 1980 aged 11. One of the. That's one, less than 0.5% went to university at 18...how many of your school year went.

When we left school it was a yts. A youth training scheme at £25 per week or nothing if you couldn't find a job. It was 1985, the factory/docks/industrial jobs my Labour controlled education trained us for had gone. There were warehouse jobs, shops and if you were lucky to have got the rather harder than today's a levels (and was told that in 2002 by the head of my 6th form unsolicited, that a levels were a lot easier than when I sat them) an office job.

Whilst grants were available for uni, they didn't meet everything for most people so the working class didn't go to uni. The traditional universities didn't pick state schools so you had to go to.a poly..
There was no acknowledgment of most kids who needed special needs education. They sat at the back of the class to avoid the cane.

If your face didn't fit with the union, you didn't work many industries. The unions shut down British industry at times during the 1970s, so thousands went unpaid. Strikes were common so you often were not working and not being paid. On one day British Leyland had 300 separate industrial disputes.

My first mortgage was part subsidised because my wife worked for a bank...that was at 8% the rest was at 15%.

So please don't think it was fucking easy being a boomer

Show quote history

You are not describing Boomers here. That cohort was Gen X. I should know, I am one

Boomers definitely had it easier than us. However, I don't know any who would agree with Sunak on this either. My mother certainly wouldn't.

SidandAndyssextoy · 26/05/2024 09:57

cakeorwine · 26/05/2024 09:52

"Cleverly told Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that no-one would be “compelled” to do the military national services, and they they could instead participate in the civil elements.
These could include a range of things: uniform public service such as special constable, on call fire fighter, emergency health responder, environmental protection, he said.
He insisted it was fully funded, and the military elements had been discussed with senior military leaders"

So you live in a village with no transport links....how do you do compulsory "voluntary" service 25 days a year in the Uniformed public services?

Pretty much NONE of that is achievable under the scheme they’ve proposed.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:57

Yes, my boomer parents can see right through this stupid shit too.

SwimmingSnake · 26/05/2024 09:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 26/05/2024 09:58

QuantumPanic · 26/05/2024 09:51

Try it and see! Being outside of your comfort zone or in a survival situation build mental and physical resilience. The first time you do something like this, it's scary. The second time you do it, it's fun.

Also no one said kids shouldn't have education and housing??

Show quote history

You speak as if I’ve never done this. I have done loads of it, including on mountains over 4000m. I’ve also done national service in another country, with ongoing periods of service 2x annually into my late 30s. It was a huge pain in the arse for both me and my employer. We were doing the exact same crap every single time, never learned anything new. Build the antenna. Test the antenna. Disassemble the antenna. Install 5km of comms cable. Test the comms cable. Put the comms cable away again. Clean the air-raid siren. Test the air-raid siren.

Actually getting work and being paid well for work was always the best way to keep me motivated and engaged.

SidandAndyssextoy · 26/05/2024 09:59

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:57

Yeah, I am right. The Russians invading France to invade us through the Channel Tunnel hasn't got the remotest chance of happening. We need to focus on and protect ourselves on the actual risks, which do not include a 7th October style land invasion. Pretending it does would make us less secure, not more.

Show quote history

Totallt agree. Emergency planning is based on ‘reasonable worst case’ scenarios for a reason. It’s wasted effort (and money) to prepare for vanishingly unlikely scenarios.

ScribblingPixie · 26/05/2024 10:00

There's an interesting column by Matthew Syed in The Times today where he talks about us as an increasingly weak nation who don't have a serious grip on the way the world's going. We're too far gone for this type of change, I think.

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 10:00

RayonSunrise · 26/05/2024 09:54

I'm starting to think Sunak has just had enough and is throwing the election. There was an interesting emergency edition of The Rest Is Politics when the election was announced, and the number of senior Tories quietly messaging Rory Stewart to admit they didn't have a clue what was going on or why July 4th was picked was pretty striking. I wonder if it will turn out to be the same with this new mad idea?

Show quote history

I am a conservative, and I am genuinely curious to see whether RS will even be in post by 5pm tomorrow.

The party will be going nuts. They didn’t want him and voted repeatedly for anyone else, he was installed as a technocrat PM in most people’s view. A tick box career politician with no interest whatsoever in the real issues or this country.

We see him call a snap election without warning, so hastily thrown together they didn’t have time to even find an umbrella and now this… something is very amiss.

This is simply not how things are done.
This idea is laughable. Risible even.

QuantumPanic · 26/05/2024 10:00

RationalityIsHard · 26/05/2024 09:50

You cannot force a sense of community and civic responsibility. Making people do something against their will is only going to do the opposite.

Anyway, isn't community service what you get for committing a crime that isn't quite bad enough for prison (or if there are no spaces). I know we no longer treat 18 years old like adults but are we now just going straight to treating them the same way as criminals.

Show quote history

You can't force it immediately, no. I have no doubt it would be wildly unpopular to begin with/kids would take the piss/not show up. But after a while it would become normalised and attitudes will change.

Cultural shifts have to start somewhere, and sometimes you do have to force them. We're in a bad place at the moment and hyperindividualism is at the root of a lot of the problems we're facing.

FiveFoxes · 26/05/2024 10:01

mpsw · 26/05/2024 09:51

If he's really keen on cyber security, the best way to promote this wouldn't be to have some half-assed scheme of 18yos using a gap year to do something (what? with whom?) but by giving some of that money to universities so they can reduce fees for computer science and computer engineering degrees which have cyber security modules, and get people properly educated in that field.

Computer Science is one of the most popular degrees already. They don't need to reduce fees to encourage people!

bluetopazlove · 26/05/2024 10:01

Scruffily · 26/05/2024 09:45

If you were in hospital, would you want to be looked after by a conscripted 18 year old who is already tired after a full week's work?

Show quote history

No the tories would quite like to see us looked after by nuns in hospital wards again ,really drive us into the past again .

ConsistentlyInconsistant · 26/05/2024 10:01

JacketPotatoFoodOfTheGods · 26/05/2024 09:18

I'm sure you're not 18 if your granddad fought in WW2.

Show quote history

No, I'm 50. I have a 16 year old and teen nephews, hence why I said great grandchildren. Can you not read?

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 26/05/2024 10:01

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 09:57

Yeah, I am right. The Russians invading France to invade us through the Channel Tunnel hasn't got the remotest chance of happening. We need to focus on and protect ourselves on the actual risks, which do not include a 7th October style land invasion. Pretending it does would make us less secure, not more.

Show quote history

Definitely. The thought of some dictator taking over Europe is for the birds.

SidandAndyssextoy · 26/05/2024 10:03

MrsFrisbyMouse · 26/05/2024 09:53

It's ridiculous - and poorly thought out.

Leaving aside the forces and cyber security idea.

I do think tha young people should be encouraged to 'give back" and take an active role in their local community. But that starts with those opportunities being available - youth clubs for example could be an amazing hub for this kind of thing - where very real connections could be made.

No need to reinvent the wheel.
The Duke of Edinburgh scheme could be widened and properly resourced - it has an amazing framework and underlying principles - it just got co-opted along the way as a way to increase chances of university placements.

Have well resourced volunteering hubs in schools - dedicate one afternoon a week to volunteering in the curriculum. The safeguarding redtape for organisations to offer volunteering to under 18's puts many organisations off (same for work experience). Fix this problem first.

So many things that could be offered to the same end that don't sound like right wing pandering

I agree with all this.

Missamyp · 26/05/2024 10:04

Tory policies at the moment are spying on peoples bank accounts and national service.
Just get them out they're becoming more boorish as the months roll on.

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 10:04

If Russia were to invade we could just superglue extinction rebellion to the channel tunnel they have had enough practice! That should do it.

IClaudine · 26/05/2024 10:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oh, you are hilarious.

WoshPank · 26/05/2024 10:08

Workasateamanddoitmyway · 26/05/2024 10:01

Definitely. The thought of some dictator taking over Europe is for the birds.

Show quote history

The thought of them doing it on foot via the Channel fucking Tunnel certainly is.

I repeat, we do not have the resources to waste on preparing for inherently implausible scenarios. We need to focus on the actual risks, which yes include risks to us in Europe. Do you not know that the Russians have targeted us already, and how they did it?

Iwasafool · 26/05/2024 10:08

MistyGreenAndBlue · 26/05/2024 09:57

You are not describing Boomers here. That cohort was Gen X. I should know, I am one

Boomers definitely had it easier than us. However, I don't know any who would agree with Sunak on this either. My mother certainly wouldn't.

Show quote history

Well I'm a boomer and I definitely paid 15% interest on my mortgage I was too old for YTS when the job market was dire in the late 70s so I did TOPS which was like YTS for adults.

I wouldn't support Sunak as a. the rich kids won't have to do it (see Trump and Bush in the US) or they will get the most desirable placements and b. working class kids (like my GS) are working their socks off to try and save some money for uni and who will give 18 year olds weekend jobs when they are going to be missing for 1 weekend in 4?

Iwasafool · 26/05/2024 10:09

Polishedshoesalways · 26/05/2024 10:04

If Russia were to invade we could just superglue extinction rebellion to the channel tunnel they have had enough practice! That should do it.

I would think flooding the tunnel would be easier and more effective.

Mikll · 26/05/2024 10:10

Brexile · 26/05/2024 09:50

I don't think 18 year old Ivan in Siberia is necessarily in better shape than our own Jack, but if a government tells an 18 year old to get into uniform, he doesn't have a great deal of say in the matter. In fact Jack, living on an island, would find it more difficult to flee.

All of this is a very worst case scenario of course, and I hope it doesn't happen. I certainly think that if anything similar comes to fruition it will be more like a workfare scheme with a bit of Union Jack bunting stuck around it. But let's not pretend the government can't do really scary, coercive things if it puts its mind to it. Some of the objections on here to why "it won't work" are laughable, such as lack of public transport: don't they remember "on your bike" in the 80s? The only way National Service "won't work" is if the future government in question decide not to make it work, by having it as a tokenistic policy with no properly working infrastructure behind it. This would be the best case scenario, besides scrapping it altogether.

Show quote history

Lack of public transport isn’t a “laughable” objection, we live over 20 miles from the nearest town, partly accessed via a major trunk road. Under the Tories we have lost all public transport, other than a bus that leaves in the morning and returns early evening - in the 80s, we had buses at least every hour. So my point was that rural 18 year olds would have no choice other than to do a residential military option, in a same way that they can’t access A-Levels because the bus doesn’t go early enough for them to get somewhere that does them.