National Service if Tories are re-elected

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Thoughts? 🍿

No, events have not shown otherwise. Events have shown us that when Russia wants to target the UK, as it has over the last few years, it does not do so via the mechanism of land invasion.

You wouldn’t be risking your life. Nobody is suggesting 18 year olds join the infantry. It would be very background work, alternatively you could choose to volunteer in something else. Let’s stop the false narrative of ‘making 18 year olds be canon fodder’

Indeed. This "national service" could be a good way of plugging shortages in traditional female jobs such as care work. Reintroducing workfare by the back door, with the costs borne by the taxpayer and all the profits to private companies owned by the PM's mates.

And to people saying they wouldn't allow their DC to do this, I don't imagine it will be as simple as checking a box on a form to say that you decline to take part in the scheme. The government would have the same range of sanctions it can already choose from to punish people who prefer not to obey the law. And don't forget, you no longer have the right to protest.

This is making me feel like I ought to register to vote. The trouble is, Labour have very authoritarian tendancies and are moving tothe right, so I wouldn't put it past them to introduce something similar eventually. (Obviously, they would be insane to put it in the manifesto.)

How does going for a walk help anything ?

Just give them good education, proper pay, a say in democracy, good infrastructure and affordable housing.

Young people are the future, invest in them instead of constantly throwing obstructions in their way.

To be entirely fair, FIL, my father and step all did national service and loved it.

Whilst I don't think an old.fashioned national service is key, we need something. I have taken on lots.of apprentices at work, just post A'Level. All in admin posts. 35% are not work ready in any shape or form. Principally they are late too often, continually push boundaries, argue about process and sometimes statutory requirements, and if picked up become surly and sometimes verge on insolence. It's an absolute tightrope to avoid them.complaining about stress or a protected characteristic.

That's apart from the fact that despite having decent GCSEs (A/B for English and Maths) and A Levels usually at C/D, they struggle with grammar and numeracy tasks. If setting up or manipulating a spreadsheet they need formulas for all but the simplest sums.

The 35% noted above are the cream of those not going to university from the state sector.

Something needs to be done because what is happening in relation to a raft of 18 year olds is not producing good attitudes, a can do approach or any aspect of work readiness in an office environment which is surprising when passing exams is still largely based on literacy and numeracy.

Sorry..a bit unclear of me. I meant that Ukraine, a European country, has been invaded using physical means rather than cyber or chemical. Whereas we hitherto would have assumed those methods would be the way forward in modern times. If we are therefore in an old fashioned world of war there is absolutely no reason why the UK can't be invaded.
Anyway let's hope not. But fail to prepare, prepare to fail! And I wouldn't want us to be in the position of saying if we are invaded hey Vlad you weren't supposed to invade us using actual people!!

Maybe they have an election strategist who wants to play this like I'm a Celebrity, and has a strategy of evoking sadistic response from the populace, where in response to the 'get me out of here' vibe, people decide to vote to subject them to more of it?

We'll be at war by 2026, against whoever the global powers decide we need to be at war against.

What the crap are you even on about. You're talking rubbish. You haven't listened to a word I said.

I said my parents moved to another county when I was 15.

That wasn't my choice. How is that "me doing anything in my power to avoid being in the army"

Can you explain how my parents moving to another country when I was 15, is "me doing anything in my power to avoid being in the army"

Jesus. You're a mad man

Your children are still very young. Do you know that CAMHS services are so cut to the bone that they have to prioritise teenagers making the most ‘credible’ suicide attempts for therapeutic help? What sort of mental health issues are building up in our young people in a system with so little funding to help them, when education is on its knees, and they are living with such poor economic prospects and the existential threat of climate change hanging over their heads and being ignored by so many people in power across the world?

How is 25 days volunteering helping this?

My grandad, who I never knew was gassed at the Somme , he never talked about it, never wore a poppy , never attended a Rememberance Service or joined the British Legion and suffered chronic ill health throughout his life. My dear departed mum remembers the National Assistance Board going through their bare cupboards in the Great Depression forcing them to sell most of the scant possesions that they had before they would help with a meagre stipend. A country fit for heroes my arse.

Pretty sure it won't be for the children of Rees Mogg or Johnson, non doms, Tory donors. Prob a buy out clause available as an A level option. People on MN clutch their pearls at the idea of their children mixing with the common folk so the idea of their children labouring in a hospital or marching on a parade ground will really upset them

You may have noticed that we're not doing a brilliant job at effectively sanctioning people who prefer not to obey the law. You need a functioning court system and sufficient police to do that. We're lacking both of those at present. Can you imagine a criminal court system trying to deal with thousands of 18 year olds who hadn't cooperated, on top of everything else? We'd have to conscript half of them to become judges!

But if national service becomes compulsory, 18 year olds won't be able to do what they want, will they? Thick as mince...

You wouldn’t be risking your life. Nobody is suggesting 18 year olds join the infantry. It would be very background work, alternatively you could choose to volunteer in something else. Let’s stop the false narrative of ‘making 18 year olds be canon fodder’

Given the context you can see why people think this is exactly about that.

Btw, it seems the hard choice is between the military or non-paid volunteering is it? So mandatory working for free?

It's not a "false narrative". Conscripts would indeed be sent to the front once reinforcements were needed, if the next government wanted to do something as silly as fighting Russia. (The army are already up to something in Ukraine, although probably not something that could be entrusted to new unwilling recruits.)

the plan is not for compulsory national service

There is absolutely no way my children are being forced to plug the gaps in services created by the conservative governments years of underfunding and poor management.

We have many children living in poverty, policy to support children during the pandemic was an after thought, mental health support is hard to come by, schools are underfunded and now they want to force this generation into giving up their own time like slaves of the government.

Will young people have the spare time to do this? Will they not be working weekend jobs to support themselves? This is going to be a complete waste of money which could be better spent listening to young people and giving them what they need to thrive, instead of forcing something on them.

I also don’t understand how these services are going to have the resources to babysit these 18year olds at weekends. By the time they are trained up they will have pretty much finished their service.

And let’s not forget that being made to work in an underfunded service area, some of which still have issues with systematic racism and misogyny, may not actually be a positive experience for young people. There are experienced adults in these environments who have been broken.

I’m not sure we are lacking in national spirit, what we are lacking is enthusiasm for a government that doesn’t act in the best interests of the people it is meant to represent and serve. They only seem to serve themselves, their own pockets and those of their friends. It’s one rule for them and one rule for us.

I think it’s pretty obvious that the Tory government are unable to see the issues they have caused, and they see non compliance with their ideas as the main problem. They see us, the public, as their problem, and if they stay in power they will not seek to rectify the systematic and structural problems they created, they will seek to demonise us and brainwash us into compliance.

I say this as somebody who has volunteered for many things over her lifetime, but the key thing here was that it was a choice. And that I could choose made it a positive experience.

Building skills for future taxpayers so we actually have money to fund those services?

Ok. But everyone knows that, and the post of mine you replied to that started our subdiscussion is whether that's likely to happen in the UK. It isn't, because of geography. Why would the Chinese and Russians be stupid enough to try and risk their own people by invading like in Ukraine when they could attack remotely instead, target the infrastructure?

Yeah, not a fan.

Did they hold you hostage when you became an adult? Are they still holding you hostage so you cannot join the reserves to make your grandad proud doing something you think you will enjoy?

Stagger out into the sunlight from your last compulsory Rishi-championed maths class and immediately get ushered into a compulsory 'competitive, full-time military commission' or, at the very least, mandatory volunteering (a contradiction in terms) ...

It might suit some, I guess.

It all sounds good but I guarantee that if and that’s a big if, tbey get re-elected, it will be dropped. Remember the extra NI payment to pay for the NHS? That was conveniently dropped too. They lie!

If we are supposed to be increasing military reserves due to an imminent war, surely this would be the worse thing to do? The military should be focusing on training their existing personnel and building up their numbers with people who want a long term career, not babysitting/wasting time training reluctant 18 year olds who will leave after a year.

If there is an alternative voluntary service option, how will that work for 18 year olds that live rurally with no public transport? As it is, the Tory government made It compulsory to be in education until 18 but removed the entitlement to free transport to school/college after 16 (and they lost their entitlement to a seat on the school bus, only getting one if there are spare left to buy after the lower years have all been allocated them). This policy has made it harder for rural children to progress into the further education of their choice and in the same way, voluntary service may not be a viable option for them.