Art A Level or not?

[DiscoAtTheProms]

DD scored 19-20 for each GCSE Art NEA AO, which I understand will be a likely 8. What does that mean she needs to improve on for A Level Art?

She is planning on taking A Levels in Maths, FM, Physics & Art with a view to Architecture or Engineering at Uni.

It's likely she'll get a 9 in another subject so I'm wondering if she should do that for A Level instead of Art.

She worked really hard for Art GCSE and I've heard A Level Art is even tougher.

Any advice out there gratefully received.

Sometimes it's nice to do something different or more creative. Art would be a good foundation for architecture or design and shows creativity unlike her other subjects. I have no idea of workload though. If it's something she enjoyed at GCSE ie. Didn't feel like 'work' then it's good optionas a 4th A level. If she was really pushing herself to get the stuff done for GCSE and didn't enjoy it then it will feel like hard work (that was my DD and no way it's she taking art A level!). I don't know how much experience you have of A levels but the subjects she's taking, even with 9s are difficult to get the highest grades in. Does she need to do 4. I'm envision my kids to take 4 for a little while and then choose what to drop as they are really not sure what they want to do but I wouldn't take 4 to the end as it can just dilute your top grades.

Just seen one is FM, prob does need the 4th then. I would say it's all about how much she enjoys it and how talented she is (it's possible to get high grades at GCSE by being conscientious and ticking all the boxes).

Sorry, another thought! DS did Product Design and there was a girl hoping to go on to architecture. She did really well. I think it's easier than art and involves learning about materials etc which is a good basis for architecture. It's creative but more problem solving than art.

Thanks @PrincessOfPreschool, to confuse matters, DD did Tech GCSE as well and a got a likely 9 in NEA but her current first choice of 6th form doesn't offer A Level Tech, but it does offer Art.

There's a lot of writing of sheets in Tech which will be full-on with 4 A Levels.

OMG! I did maths, physics and art A levels, although it was 40 years ago…
I considered graphic design, architecture but in the end did a Civil Engineering degree and have worked as an engineer all my life.
I am a practical person and enjoy problem solving, which is what engineering is really, but I don’t really use art skills at work, although I think my construction drawings always look nice! I do enjoy doing arty things outside of work.

‘Engineering’ covers a huge range of careers, so I’d say your DD looks into which branch she would like to pursue.

Those A levels look perfect for Architecture or Engineering.

Have you/she looked at degree courses, their focus and their requirements?

iirc Some architecture degrees focus more on the art side than others?

I think architecture isn’t as ‘arty’ as you might think. Everyone thinks they’ll be designing the next Sydney Opera House but in reality you’ll be producing kitchen extensions, office blocks and the odd barn conversion. There’s an awful lot of submitting planning consents too.

Maths, FM, Physics and Art are a tough combination with a lot of work. Art A level is a time thief but an art or design A level is recommended for architecture. She ideally needs FM and Physics for engineering though so dropping that wouldn’t be a good idea.

4 A levels aren’t really necessary (or is she at a school where you start 4 and drop 1?). I would consider looking at the entry requirements for university courses she is interested in and see if there is combination that works for both engineering and architecture. She can email the admissions team and ask for more detailed advice eg when there are suggested subjects, she could ask which of her potential combinations are best.

Would a Uni look unfavourably at an 8 in Art if doing it for A Level @LiteralLunatic? Earlier this year her Art teacher said she would be working with DD to get the 9 she is capable of so I genuinely don't know what has happened here.

The 6th form doesn't suggest dropping the 4th but I don't mind if she has to (although I know some Unis expect you to take FM if offered).

An 8 is surely excellent, I really can't see why a university should look at it unfavourably.]
Though maybe I am out of touch.

Art A-level is very intense and hard-going. Lots of hours. (I was an AHT in a big comp and line managed a lot of different depts so got a good idea of the A level courses too). I’d say it’s hard enough as a 3rd A level - as a 4th your Dd would be stretched very thinly.

It’s a bit of a myth that good unis rate 4 A levels over 3 so don’t let that sway you unduly.

This site is very good for careers info and I’ve picked out the bit on architecture for you. HTH. https://www.goconstruct.org/construction-careers/what-jobs-are-right-for-me/architect

DD has told me that A-Level Art is a big step up from GCSE. It's been a lot of physical hands-on time in the studio for her. In her case, it's an absolute necessity since she wants to do jewellery or product design. But it would absolutely not be an easy fourth.

There's a lot of writing of sheets in Tech which will be full-on with 4 A Levels.

I guess it depends on the board (DS did AQA Product Design) but he did MINIMAL work. Compared to maths and physics, I would say it was about a tenth, or even less, of the effort and time. He had tutoring in both maths and physics. He got a B and he got Ds in the other two. I think he's naturally quite talented at design so maybe that partly explains it but I also think it's just a lot easier! Is there nowhere she can do it?

Yes @PrincessOfPreschool , her second choice of setting offers AQA Product Design. Guess she can decide after inductions.

But I recall seeing the sheets at open evening and what I thought was two years work was actually just the first year so the volume looked significant to me. Might just be one candidate's project though. Glad it wasn't too onerous for you DS.

I don't think he even did a project in Y12! He hardly had a teacher for most of Y13. There is an NEA project but he managed to do most of it in school time.

DS has just finished Art A level. He got an 8 at GCSE. It's a lot of work and he whilst he was hoping for an A he thinks he will come out with a B (dependant on grade boundaries). He's a good artist but didn't love some of the structure or topics that come with A level. He's not a fan of extrapolating lots of meaning from his work and putting it into words - he just likes to go with flow and create. Unfortunately being good at that side of things is what will elevate you to A or A star.

The amount of workshop time, the timing of deadlines and the work needed for his uni portfolios (he's also hoping to do architecture) meant he was very stretched from about Dec - Mar in his final year which had a knock on effect on other subjects.

We've visited a lot of Unis for architecture in the last year and whilst some do look for the art students, many are keen on the STEM students with some courses expecting Maths to a high level. If your DD wanted to focus on STEM and not do art it wouldn't impede her chances of applying for architecture at most unis. We spoke to a number of students at open days who hadn't done art at A level but did still have talent and put together portfolio work in their own time.

We're now in the waiting game for August to see if he meets either of his offers. I'm not fully convinced he will love the reality of architecture if he gets there but it's a case of see what happens now.

Oh wow @OvaHere, looks like we're on a similar path.

Do you think the 8 in Art affected your DS' Uni offers for Architecture? I imagine we'll be competing with lots of candidates with 9s in their bag.

I don't think any of them really cared that much about Art GCSE even the architecture courses that lean more art and design than engineering. A few courses we looked at did have a prerequisite of GCSE Maths grade 7 upwards but that's about it. Most at a minimum expect GCSE Maths and English at either 4 or 5.

They all (that we visited) stressed that whilst being art inclined may be beneficial all students are taught the technical and digital techniques they need as part of the course. Some unis put more weight on liking the portfolio than others. They all generally explain their 'philosophy' on the open days and it's easy enough to get a feel for what sort of fit a particular course will be for the prospective student.

Manchester School of Architecture rejected him outright without even asking for a portfolio but if you look at their previous intake stats it's easy to see they have their pick of top students and will be looking for those with predicted AAA at the very least, probably more.

Being completely honest I think a high grade in Maths and Physics would be more likely to get her into a top ranking architecture course than an Art A level. I'm not saying she shouldn't do an art type A level but it would be a bonus rather than necessary. Although ultimately IMO what unis want (outside of any prerequisites they specify) is the highest grades in any subject.

Thanks @OvaHere. If she doesn't do Art A Level, she'll need to think about when/how she creates content for her portfolio for her uni application.

Is there any generic advice for portfolios for Architecture uni applications published anywhere or do we have to look at each uni website?

Look down on an 8? Why on earth would they? Extraordinary that you would think that. Please don't pass that idea on to your child.

And let her take the subjects she likes/ will lead on to her future career, NOT the one she did the best at.

DS did physics, art and Design technology with CAD. He wanted to do architecture. His art teacher suggested photography first year of A levels and 3d art second year. So do talk to the art teacher. He got his degree He's just finished his first year of part II masters.

Another plus with art is that you have a portfolio to take to open days. DS had two unconditional offers as a result which does take off the pressure come results day.

Both mine did art at A-level. One is now an engineer and one is doing a degree in an ostensibly non arty subject but both have used their aesthetic/design skills a lot. A few of my friends suggested that an "academic subject" might serve them better but it has suited them both very well.

A Level Art is hard. I got an A* the top grade at the time (before the number gradings) in Art at GCSE . I ended up with a C at college, got A's in the other subjects i did. I picked Art as I was good at it, and enjoyed it , or so I thought! The subject had nothing to do with the career I was looking at.

I found I didn't have the time to put in to get the high level grades. I also found the Art teachers were far more favourable to the students who just did Art A Levels ( ie. It was split into Fine Art, Graphics etc), they were quite unpleasant to me , always telling I wasn't putting enough extra hours in. I ended up hating it , that's my honest experience.

They all have their own criteria which is sent to the students once they've made their initial UCAS applications. Some are fairly basic/flexible meaning you can submit existing art work you have but some ask for specific pieces which means quite a bit of work creating the art and presenting it in the requested way. DS found this quite onerous because the requests came at the same time he had A level work to submit and needed to revise for his mocks.