Teacher kids seem to outperform - insights?

[waddauthink]

I'm intrigued by the fact that most of the kids we know who have either teachers as parents or in the family - or were home educated - seem to outperform and go on to achieve the highest at A-level and beyond.

Many are very bright in their own right but if I were to plot a graph, I would assume that a normal bell curve would be still hold for kids/grandkids of teachers so there must be something else than just intelligence.

From my very large network (still anecdotal, I know), these kids seem to be the one that wins academic, all-round prizes and essay competitions. Although, I have to say, when I've read some of the essays (they were shared by school), I would question how much of that was down to the kids themselves - they were like written by an academic professor!

I do know from a friend whose mother helps with her kids - ex grammar school teacher; this grandmother definitely 'helps' her grandkids with homework more than most parents, I'd say.

Of course, being a teacher probably means you are able to instil a love of learning but I think there is something else that is also at play. Obviously I'm aware of the 'growth mindset' and try to instil this but it's only a small part.

These kids are often extremely hard working and diligent so that must play a significant part. Some of them are definitely the naturally most bright (I know it's difficult to judge but you can form an opinion) but still seem to get the very high marks.

I can imagine knowing your way around mark schemes and the AO1 or whatever they are called, and schemes of work and topics/topic tests must help but is there anything else?

Genuinely, it would be very helpful for non-teacher parents to know and I wonder whether it shouldn't be the main focus of education - to find and share the 'magic juice'/behaviours that leads to these types of mindsets.

So, if you are a teacher or have a teacher relative who spends time with your children - what do they do to help i.e. how do they discuss homework, what to focus on, how to approach tests/exams and coursework?

Would love to know too if perhaps kids of school teachers (or interaction with a grandparent etc who is a teacher) is correlated with a larger proportion going to top 10 universities than the general population?

TIA.

I so agree with this.

Of course, information on syllabuses, exam specs are available but - like someone upthread said - it's knowing what matters most which is important. And how to write so that you get most marks. I'm sure I could to some extent do this myself but this would be stepping out of my comfort zone as I'm not a teacher, and would require an enormous amount of time that I simply don't have. Knowing how to frame a task so that it becomes the best learning experience; you'd expect a teacher to do this in their sleep.

Agree, my kids and those of my friends don't abuse teachers, are respectful, do their HW on time, we also talk at the dinner table (!) and all the other things mentioned that teachers do, I think I and they all do.

Exactly this. I am also a university academic, I have always encouraged my children to engage with other sources. Ds is in his final year of A levels and, alongside learning in school, listens to podcasts, watches documentaries and we access relevant museums, theatre productions etc. Rather than just learning the taught content he has learned about political and social context for English Literature, for example. He understands appraising evidence and critical analysis. We started this right from primary age, encouraging their interests and helping them to explore more widely.

We started this right from primary age,

That reminds me of some of the things I repeatedly wittered at them -

'What are you going to talk about? How do you want or need to present it?'

'Does it actually need to be a load of writing or can you get the information across another way?'

'Always reference your sources'

'If you say where you got it from, it's not cheating'

'If you quote something, tell the teacher so they know you've read up on it and aren't trying to say that it's yours'

'Now tell the teacher why you've included that quote - what does it mean?'

'How is this different from the last quote?'

'How easy is it going to be to read that - would you be able to get what you need from it easily, or would you want to chuck it out of the window after ten minutes' trying to work out what's going on?'

'Is there a useful picture or diagram that could show the teacher what you're saying?'

By the time she was 11, she was the queen of the poster presentation. Probably how she ended up helping other students complete grant applications, submissions for approval - and then went straight into lecturing.

We can all only be the people we are. Being interested, present and supportive counts for a lot.

We can’t all be everything - we can’t be teachers and doctors and lawyers and engineers and bankers etc etc. There is no ‘perfect’ profession for being a parent.

Getting up to speed with the different phases of childhood and education is impirtant, as is being a bit informed about things adult children are involved in, is good. But we don’t have to possess every skill that might be useful to them at some point in their life. We don’t have to strive and elbow our way to every skill for the benefit of our kids but also trust their abilities and efforts too.

I honestly think those Oxbridge teacher children have earned their places. It’s so competitive and there absolutely isn’t any favouring of the kids of old boys, or teachers or whatever. In fact the reverse can be true with attempts (much needed) to add diversity.
All middle class kids of professional parents have SO many advantages. But in the end they can’t and won’t all be Oxbridge material - regardless of parental effort.
What is a more interesting question is the continued v low take up of Oxbridge and uni places from those of white British working class descent. Ethnic diversity has improved. More come from state schools. But they are generally middle class kids with the advantages we’ve talked about.

What about what’s needed for those from backgrounds with less educated parents? They are the ones who need the help, not those from the middle classes who are in different professions to teaching.

Teachers aren’t particularly intelligent

They’ve all been to university so that automatically puts them in to the category of relatively intelligent compared to the general population.

What a daft statement. As in all jobs which require a degree, all teachers of academic subjects are above a certain level of intelligence. Beyond that, they vary between middlingly intelligent and extremely intelligent. Like in many jobs.

Well they have at least a there normal degree. Then their post grad pgce then often a masters. So yes I stand by what I say

You've drawn a really odd conclusion from this data that makes your whole premise here wrong.

According to Google, there are around 250k secondary teachers and 300k generalist medical practitioners in the UK.

3.58% of offer holders were generalist medical practitioners in 2024, and 2.87% were secondary teachers.

Proportionally, more generalist medical practitioners' offspring got in than secondary teachers' offspring.

Good point about SATs. It’s not a popular opinion but they do count and teachers know this. The red carpet treatment for GD if their trajectory dips at high school is a real thing.

But nearly 9% were actually teachers (primary, secondary, higher institutions) versus 4% for solicitors and 3.7% for GPs.

And, not wanting to offend, on average I'd assume GPs and solicitors to have higher IQs - I think there is probably some data on this somewhere - than teachers.

To have 9% of offer holders at Oxbridge coming from a teaching profession is quite something!

Plus, I do wonder what the number 1 ranked profession is - it's withheld!

Would love to know what the top ranked profession is that Oxford have withheld?

They used the following categories:
"Teaching" has been defined as the following groups:
"Further education teaching professionals"
"Head teachers and principals"
"Higher education teaching professionals"
"Primary education teaching professionals"
"Secondary education teaching professionals"
"Special needs education teaching professionals"
"Teaching professionals n.e.c."

I think someone further up said they were a principal or head teacher and that they had no time. So it's interesting to see this mirrored in the data as they do not land in the top 15 either.

Yes, because there are more teachers (900,000) than there are GPs (38,000) or solicitors (200,000). So per solicitor, the chance is higher than per teacher. If the GP data is right, then the chance is enormously high for their offspring.

There are 68 million people in the UK. Just under 1 million are teachers. If all professions had an equal chance of raising highly intelligent offspring with the motivation and opportunity to get a place at Oxbridge, then the chance would be 1 in 68, or 1.47%. But it's not for reasons that are wider than the teaching profession.

The number 1 profession isn't withheld in the FOI request. It's withheld by the survey respondents. This might be because they don't want to give that information, because they do not have a relationship with their parents, or just didn't answer the full set of questions.

No. It's because there aren't many headteachers. You do not understand the data you're quoting.

That is true, granted.

Yes, but in all honesty, GPs and solicitors tend to have high IQs and to get onto their degree and training programmes is very competitive. So I had expected them to be up there in all honesty.

Aha, so the withheld is to do with the respondent - thanks.

Yes, so the biggest number simply withheld their parents profession. They will be from a wide range of jobs.
Often applicants without this info as they fear bias against their background.

Your ‘teacher’ figure includes those in Higher Ed - ie uni lecturers - clearly an academic group with able children and a strong knowledge of uni sector. These people won’t necessarily know lots about specific school requirements etc, but are academically able and interested and create an environment where ideas are discussed and education valued and uni seen as a totally normal destination.

But as others say, the GP success rate per GP parent is higher. Being intelligent, having spent years and years in education and knowing the importance of exam success etc helps them rodyvr naturally bright children who are in supported environment. More GP than teacher kids will be in private ed too (per head) and we know the privately educated have greater success at uni applications and Oxbridge than their numbers alone suggest should be achieved.

If you were to look at educational outcomes of kids by parent’s salary, teachers probably would do pretty well, given the profession isn’t especially well-paid. These people won’t same would be true for the kids of Church clergy.

Yes, good point re looking at salary for the occupation status.

Yes, I was also going to say that GPs/doctors tend to be more likely to have their children at independent schools (guess it helps with long / changing hours).

I’m a teacher. I wanted my children to do well and be life long learners. I also didn’t like the way Maths was taught in primary school so taught them myself - it paid off they love Maths and did GCSE and A level early etc and I have been able to support, enrich and challenge their educations. We love learning together. I had to be careful that it wasn’t about the A* but the enjoyment of loving to learn and do their best.

Like many parents I taught around subjects at school eg doing Egyptians went to see the Mummies, make model pyramids, did the maths of pyramids. Now much older they love learning. I have tutored where I could and where I couldn’t eg Spanish - I found a friend that did. My eldest is off to university in September and yes they are on track to get 4 A* etc and yes it is a top university and a highly competitive course etc.

I've always had the holidays with them and to be fair covid didn’t stop us. We had a learning routine etc and they did so well and enjoyed it immensely.

We don’t do scrolling or phones and they don’t have one.

Library was a Saturday morning routine after Horseriding etc we are heavy on board games etc - no different to many families. We do value education and DH and I are still interested and learning in our 50s.

Ultimately, this is great news, in a way, as it shows that added value - beyond IQ perhaps - can achieved in the right environment and with the right input. That's a positive!

Perhaps teachers are brighter than you thought OP. Many could have been lawyers or GPs if they had chosen…but they didn’t.

If you go to some of the selective state or private independent secondaries, large numbers of the teachers were educated at Oxbridge or top Russell Group unis. But maybe the public perception is that teachers are those who couldn’t choose to do something else or aren’t v bright. We know teaching isn’t valued highly by society or rewarded well financially.

Yes, in the past primary teachers didn’t always have a degree, but they do now. Yes, not all teachers are highly educated. Secondary teachers do have subject specialisms and many are passionate about their subjects: lots have a Madters and some have PhDs.

But as it gets harder to recruit teachers and it is less attractive due to ooor funding of schools (this, more than teacher pay) less people will want to do it and there will be more use of TAs and a struggle to get teachers - quite likely less Oxbridge places will be taken by teacher kids!

@WombatChocolate Of course, many very, very bright teachers.

@MyBusyBee Lovely! I think something you say there is key - encouraging a love of learning (not for the A*) and do your best. Sounds simple, but I think even though many want to focus on effort only, the fear around falling behind and so the focus gets back on the grades.

That’s a very sweeping statement. How do you know unless you’ve psychometrically tested all teachers?

I’ve been in five of these categories during my career. I don’t think it makes much difference time-wise.