Teacher kids seem to outperform - insights?

[waddauthink]

I'm intrigued by the fact that most of the kids we know who have either teachers as parents or in the family - or were home educated - seem to outperform and go on to achieve the highest at A-level and beyond.

Many are very bright in their own right but if I were to plot a graph, I would assume that a normal bell curve would be still hold for kids/grandkids of teachers so there must be something else than just intelligence.

From my very large network (still anecdotal, I know), these kids seem to be the one that wins academic, all-round prizes and essay competitions. Although, I have to say, when I've read some of the essays (they were shared by school), I would question how much of that was down to the kids themselves - they were like written by an academic professor!

I do know from a friend whose mother helps with her kids - ex grammar school teacher; this grandmother definitely 'helps' her grandkids with homework more than most parents, I'd say.

Of course, being a teacher probably means you are able to instil a love of learning but I think there is something else that is also at play. Obviously I'm aware of the 'growth mindset' and try to instil this but it's only a small part.

These kids are often extremely hard working and diligent so that must play a significant part. Some of them are definitely the naturally most bright (I know it's difficult to judge but you can form an opinion) but still seem to get the very high marks.

I can imagine knowing your way around mark schemes and the AO1 or whatever they are called, and schemes of work and topics/topic tests must help but is there anything else?

Genuinely, it would be very helpful for non-teacher parents to know and I wonder whether it shouldn't be the main focus of education - to find and share the 'magic juice'/behaviours that leads to these types of mindsets.

So, if you are a teacher or have a teacher relative who spends time with your children - what do they do to help i.e. how do they discuss homework, what to focus on, how to approach tests/exams and coursework?

Would love to know too if perhaps kids of school teachers (or interaction with a grandparent etc who is a teacher) is correlated with a larger proportion going to top 10 universities than the general population?

TIA.

Knowing what the mark scheme is looking for is probably the single most important factor in success.

Agreed, similar circumstances and this was also my experience. I recall some of my parents colleagues being borderline abusive if not straight up abusive with the expectation placed on their children too. Certainly not a case of nepo babies.

It really isn't, success is about creating children who are good learners in the broadest sense.

Knowing a mark scheme isn't likely across all subjects, at all key stages, for any teacher.

I'm a primary teacher. Specialised in early years but taught in primary too. I may have had some idea of SATS, but not in detail and some idea of year group expectations across the school, but not in detail.

I certainly had no idea of GCSE chemistry or A level economics!

Same applies to homework and help. (not that homework was ever a focus in my family anyway).

Teacher here.
Talk to children from day one. Always encouraged books and reading. Engaged with school work and completing of homework. Good food and sleep habits. Focused on respect, kindness, good manners and listening and working in class. Supported kids teachers with discipline. High expectations not coasting. Encouraging interests.Leading by example.

Thanks for all the helpful insights.

I think a lot of the general advice - encouraging books and reading, board/educational games, expecting kindness and respectful behaviour, encouraging interests and high expectations are common to a lot of parents.

However, I think a few things I've picked up include teachers from the very, very beginning expect their children to hand in their very best work (I don't think other parents necessarily do this in YR/1 - thinking it's better if you encourage children to be independent, waiting for feedback from teachers); discussing and explaining the HW task properly and at the right level - 'framing of the task' - before the children do their tasks (this I suspect will be second nature to experienced teachers, less so for other parents perhaps), making sure kids are ready, and indeed 'ahead of the curve' when at school (although this applies to many other families too). Plus a very strong focus on effort and hard work and that absolutely every moment is a potential learning opportunity.

Although it's true a primary school teacher may not have any knowledge or idea of how to teach e.g. Chemistry GCSE or A-level, I suspect they are still able to easily pick up the key assessment criteria required, even if done subconsciously rather than intentionally.

The data is quite revealing. Yes, teachers tend to have degrees, but so do virtually all the other professions in the top 15 of Oxford offer holders.

However, there is clearly a lot of 'added value' in having teacher parents - on the whole - as they surpass the % of offers compared with the other professions - arguably many of these involve having to progress through extremely competitive processes (and so requiring very high grades/IQ).

Ideally, if these key skills could be shared and taught to all parents more widely, lots of kids, especially socially disadvantaged ones, could benefit greatly.

Again, thanks for all the input. I'm not a journo btw (someone on here did ask!), but it's just a general interest area of mine.

Although it's true a primary school teacher may not have any knowledge or idea of how to teach e.g. Chemistry GCSE or A-level, I suspect they are still able to easily pick up the key assessment criteria required, even if done subconsciously rather than intentionally.

TBH even if I could ( I couldn't and one of mine did study chemistry and then a biological science degree) , I didn't have the time, given a full time teaching job and then a primary headship.

I often feel I didn't do enough for my DC’s once they could be more independent. I just wasn't at home enough.

The thing about teachers seeing a learning opportunity in everything with small children - I think that’s mostly about being professionals who value education rather than teachers. So you see parents with small kids out on the streets counting the paving stones, counting the steps, talking about the colour things are, using descriptive words etc. On one hand they are seeing a learning opportunity, but it’s not an effort, it’s instinctive to lots of people who are professionals and parents - they simply talk about those things naturally.

Governnent ran Sure Start Centres and parenting courses to help parents develop skills. Schools run sessions for parents about phonics and often offer access to an online hub of resources and techniques. Often these gave a low take-up, because people don’t see the things or resources as important. Many people think education is what the school and not they do. There are also always some people who aren’t professionals who are very interested in education and choose to research and access information.

So I’d say the stuff IS shared. None of it is rocket science but parenting is about choices. The school and the state play a role in helping parents to parent and be involved in education, but in the end it’s up to parents themselves to parent their kids.

Op, you sound like from the data you think teachers have some kind of secret ingredient in their parenting which is leading to Oxbridge success - and you’d like it to be shared. Honestly, it’s just people being who they are rather than lots of doing. It’s about time and values over a whole childhood….not reading a book of ‘how to…’ or going on a course.

Broad principals of a reasonably structured environment and boundaries which are enforced (and which teachers use daily in their work) are probably applied at home too. In many households today, these are not popular concepts or parents don’t have the skill or confidence to introduce and make such principals a core part of home life. Lots of people from other professional backgrounds are equally as able to make these part of home life. Some choose not to or don’t value such concepts themselves. Some don’t spend much time with their kids or don’t naturally sit and chat over family meals or model valuing learning as something for life, not just school. Their values impact their own behaviour and their children, as all our values do. Some don’t see parenting as holistically including education but see school as having that role and essentially opt out. And a course run by school or a book about education are no substitute for values people do or don’t have.

Thanks and of course many parents do the 'teaching as they go' too - I think most of my friends did, as did I. But I think there is a way of framing homework tasks that may not be instinctive even for the best, most supportive parents who value education.

I / we value education enormously, do have boundaries, did all the fun games, obviously counting steps, talking about what's happening around us, all the things you mention.

BUT I don't think I necessarily sat down and talked through the homework tasks in the right way, or understanding 'what matters and what doesn't' to make the most of education and homework where given. I don't think most of my (grad/post-grad - senior and successful professional) friends did either necessarily. Or at least not in the most effective way.

Now my kids have been through GCSEs/A-levels etc, we have engaged in a different way as the structure and info on these qualifications (specifications!) are available, but it's still quite a lot of work.

For the record, my children are high achieving, very independent and so this is not at all sour grapes about teachers. My kids' teachers have all been fantastic. But the stats were quite compelling - so there is clearly something that a lot of teachers do that even professionals such as medical consultants/GPs, accountants etc don't do to the same extent - so there is clearly some magic that happens, above and beyond being a loving, supporting education-orientated professional!

I’m a teacher. There is no way that I’m ringing the school to claim that it wasn’t my child’s fault they got a detention/told off/ etc. I know children will claim one thing when another actually happened. If you choose to not do your homework, you are also choosing the punishment, so have at it! I would be horrified if my children were ever disrespectful in school, and they know it. Because I’m a teacher I also believe in early intervention and I’m very realistic about my children’s abilities. I’m well aware that very, very, very few children are geniuses. So I would immediately look for extra help if they needed it and would never be upset if one of their teachers told me they weren’t doing well in a subject or were finding something hard. How many times do you read on here that someone is so offended and upset when a teacher does this? And lots of people say not to worry because they are only young… well the curriculum continues young or not and the gap grows and is very very difficult to close once it’s more than a year.

Having seen how my teacher friends parent I absolutely am not surprised by this. When I don't know how to approach a situation with my own kids I regularly find myself thinking what would [teacher friend] do.

An observation about some of my highly educated and successful professional parent friends who are not teachers;

• some had more belief than I did that school alone would be the answer …and later realised it wasn’t.
• Listened to school which said ‘they are doing fine’ without digging any further, and later discovered ‘fine’ meant average…which was not what they had hoped for, or thought they were capable of.
• Had no sense that SATs might be used for setting students in secondary schools, for determining GCSE targets or which GCSE options might be available to them.
• Were quite oblivious to special needs such as ADHD or ADD and were reluctant when any mention of any characteristics were mentioned, to engage or ‘label’ the child. Absolutely did not push school to look into getting a diagnosis and even obstructed in one case, after starting the process.
• Didn’t think ahead with school things. For example, booking holidays in holidays when revision for mocks was key. Booking holidays in term time. Missed the round of uni open days in yr 12.

These were professional and highly educated parents who valued education and had supportive homes. But they didn’t have much knowledge about schools and lacked curiosity to find out or ask deeper questions or think ahead. Some realised by the end of primary, that parent has to be more pro-active and spend time getting to grips with stuff and systems. One used a tutor for some catch-up. One got tired of the slow pace to diagnosis for SEN and paid so it was sped up. One was frequently annoyed that school which provided lots of info about all kinds of things, didn’t lead them by the hand through all the uni open days and organise trips to them all. Another who paid high school fees had the idea that she now didn’t need to do anything as she’d paid for everything that could possibly be needed.

I suppose that in the end, we all know something about the systems we work in. We all tend to get some kind of benefit from that at some point. There is an advantage of knowing when school reports or comments at parents’ evening are a little bland and pushing for more detail or quite simply knowing the limits of what schools (of all types - including fee paying ones) can do and so simply doing the things that parents instead of schools need to do.

Teachers are very busy in term time. They often say they neglect their own kids for other people’s kids and find teaching my isn’t family friendly in term time. Most will still manage family dinners most nights …but then might be doing their marking or prep from 9-11pm or whenever. And the holidays do give plenty of time with the kids. Few teacher kids spend lots of time in holiday clubs. Yes, like all kids they have too much screen time. But there is also family time and a chance to catch-up on how the kids are getting on and to do some of the life admin of following up about SEN diagnosis or updating themselves about requirements in phases of education they are not familiar with. Teachers won’t know about many phases of education outside of their speciality, but they know how to access information and often have teacher friends working in other age groups who are useful sources of info. I think teachers generally are good at accessing information and asking questions of people or online and being curious. But these are skills I’d think lots of other professionals have too - but I suppose we tend to look into and find out about things we already have an interest in.

My DC went to Oxford with top grades and I had no influence whatsoever with the university or colleges!

Interesting - my DC never had a tutor in any subject. The only revision they allowed me to help with was the GCSE poetry anthology - I’m primary/SEN trained.

Teachers care, don’t let the kids slack, value education and don’t run to the school to stick up for their kid even when the kid is in the wrong.

I was a teacher and read to my DC from birth. There were always plenty of books in the house. We made good use of the local library. There were always craft materials, pencils, paints, brushes, felt tips, chalk, paper to draw and write on. Lots of talking. No PlayStation or X-Box. We went to the cinema, the park, museums. I was a single parent from when DC was 3 and my main concerns were getting DC to nursery on time so I could get to my own school. Then drop-offs/pick-ups at before and after school clubs (paid by me) at school age.

I was always busy with preparing lessons for my job and had no time to hothouse my DC. Obviously they had 100% attendance unless really unwell because I had to be in work. If DC forgot their PE kit, food tech ingredients, etc. there would be no one taking those things into school so DC had to be organised and remember to pack them from a young age.

At high school (state) I trusted the teachers to do their jobs well and didn’t question them. My DC was well-behaved and studious so I never had to supervise homework. I had absolutely no idea of the mark schemes and no time to research them.

In hindsight it was probably the baby and early childhood years when I spent most time playing with DC, so they could read by 3 - we always had bedtime stories though, usually with me reading. If I’d had a partner I would have had more time to take an interest but as a full-time teacher I always felt as though I was just about keeping on top of things.

My parents were both teachers, as were both of my grandmothers. My brothers and I did all do well academically.
Its a combination nature and nurture, obviously - teachers are generally of above average intelligence (probably used to be even moreso in earlier generations when it was one of the few professions open to women) and they value and should understand education. I grew up in a house full of books.

what rot.😂

Also, the kids who do particularly well are likely the ones who’ve read and thought and tinkered beyond the curriculum and ‘mark schemes’. The ones who are engaged with the subjects that interest them, and who actually value learning as an end in itself rather than a means to an end.

I think there is a lot of truth in this. What you said about SATs and digging deeper about performance; very true and has been a learning that has come in handy for my younger kids, although in truth I'd done my research re SATS. But most parents would never have thought of it, no reason they should!

What others have said, i.e. not accepting bad behaviour, expecting HW to be done, lots of reading from a young age (though I have to admit although I read to my youngest, I didn't teach them to read- come from a country where people go later to school so never entered my mind!), library etc etc, I'd say all of my local friends did so, so these are not differentiators especially for teachers.

You don’t need to be a teacher to know the mark schemes. It’s all on the internet for GCSEs and A levels in great detail, just a Google click away on the exam board websites, but also huge amounts of YouTube videos, free online resources etc re exam technique, how to answer different question styles, etc. and also in study/revision books like York notes and CGP. A bit of research tells the student what they need to know these days - they’re glued to their phones anyway so if motivated could easily find the resources and it’s usually quick to pick up hints and tips etc.

But You still need the knowledge in the first place. Mark schemes help you answer questions, they don’t tell you the answers. It’s more about fine tuning, ie brevity and not writing sentences when bullet points or lists would get the marks in science exams giving you more time to think and answer other questions. Or how many points you need to write about in a “to what extent” essay. Or when and how many times to include quotes in an English Lit essay. Or showing workings in Maths to pick up marks for knowing some stages of a long calculation even if you don’t know how to do it all or get it wrong - you can still get over half marks just by knowing some of the stages.

You don’t need to have a teacher parent for that as different subjects have different mark schemes, I’d hope most teachers would go through mark schemes in class during normal lessons so students shouldn’t need their parents to tell them, or students could research it themselves.

I’m an ex-primary teacher.
I read to them from day one, taught them to read simple texts before they started Reception class.
Like most sensible parents, I value education but I also really enjoyed being involved in their learning.
They are 27, 18 and 16 now and I really miss those primary years. I still occasionally browse the children’s section in Waterstones 🤣
Roll on grandchildren!

Teacher friend’s son is doing exams shortly. Hearing her speak about how she pinpoints his gaps and the work she’s done with him/ got him to do to boost up a grade is very strategic sounding and impressive. She just knows how to get the most out of exams. In a way that I don’t, despite having degrees and making sure my kids know education is so important, don’t abuse teachers blah blah.

Obviously they are children of intelligent people , they also value education, understand teaching methods and will be better able to assist with homework etc

By the way, this is the link that set me off on this question - showing around 9% of offer holders at Oxford have teacher parents (I'd love to know how high this figure would be if it included grandparents too!):

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/admission_statistics_on_occupati#incoming-2953994

Perhaps the other professional parents come into their own later…when they can play to their strengths - advice on prepping for certain careers, interviews, work experience and interning.

Lots of doctor parents spawn doctor children and likewise for lawyers etc.

None of us have expertise in all areas.

In the end, children of well educated parents (mothers in particular) certainly have an advantage. There are general advantages as mentioned about valuing education etc but each different career path of parents gives different specific benefits too.

Re Oxbridge, the me notable feature is how many kids who go still have had family members who went previously. Again, there’s something about confidence in knowing the systems and it being ‘normal’ to aspire to and be involved with.

Wity education in general, lots of people feel distanced from it or that top exam levels or top unis ‘aren’t for them or their family’ even when they have been pretty successful themselves. Being out of one’s comfort zone and sticking to what one knows is definitely a thing, across society.

I didn't know it was still the case that that so many of Oxbridge offer holders are those who have had family members attending there too.

Anecdotally, it's absolutely the case - the two I know who have gone to Cambridge / Oxford had close family members. To be fair, one of these is virtually a genius, the other one is smart, extremely hard working but with a grandparent who went to Cambridge and who has had a very active involvement in this girl's life (educationally especially).

I agree, the feeling that 'it's normal' to aspire to go to Oxbridge must play a significant part, this aspect of 'belonging' I guess probably plays a part in all sectors/areas, acting, becoming a GP (yes GPs in particular have a very strong familiar element!). Interesting that lawyers also spawn lawyers; although someone on this thread, I think, said she knows so many lawyers with parents who were teachers too and that it was a well known fact??

I was curious though in the data set as to why Oxford didn't disclose the number 1 most common category - I wonder why this might be?