Teacher kids seem to outperform - insights?

[waddauthink]

I'm intrigued by the fact that most of the kids we know who have either teachers as parents or in the family - or were home educated - seem to outperform and go on to achieve the highest at A-level and beyond.

Many are very bright in their own right but if I were to plot a graph, I would assume that a normal bell curve would be still hold for kids/grandkids of teachers so there must be something else than just intelligence.

From my very large network (still anecdotal, I know), these kids seem to be the one that wins academic, all-round prizes and essay competitions. Although, I have to say, when I've read some of the essays (they were shared by school), I would question how much of that was down to the kids themselves - they were like written by an academic professor!

I do know from a friend whose mother helps with her kids - ex grammar school teacher; this grandmother definitely 'helps' her grandkids with homework more than most parents, I'd say.

Of course, being a teacher probably means you are able to instil a love of learning but I think there is something else that is also at play. Obviously I'm aware of the 'growth mindset' and try to instil this but it's only a small part.

These kids are often extremely hard working and diligent so that must play a significant part. Some of them are definitely the naturally most bright (I know it's difficult to judge but you can form an opinion) but still seem to get the very high marks.

I can imagine knowing your way around mark schemes and the AO1 or whatever they are called, and schemes of work and topics/topic tests must help but is there anything else?

Genuinely, it would be very helpful for non-teacher parents to know and I wonder whether it shouldn't be the main focus of education - to find and share the 'magic juice'/behaviours that leads to these types of mindsets.

So, if you are a teacher or have a teacher relative who spends time with your children - what do they do to help i.e. how do they discuss homework, what to focus on, how to approach tests/exams and coursework?

Would love to know too if perhaps kids of school teachers (or interaction with a grandparent etc who is a teacher) is correlated with a larger proportion going to top 10 universities than the general population?

TIA.

Tbh, all of those things I did with my kids too. They're bright, one in particular highly able, but where I guess I fall down is knowing 'how school / assessments' work.

Info available online but I have a FT job and it's not a natural language to me to look at 'descriptors' or syllasbus/specs! I also wasn't taught how to teach so once kids get older, it's much harder.

Always read to/with them, went to museums (still do), played board games, watched interesting programmes etc etc. Think a lot of parents do.

We both teach- met while training, very different areas of education now. DS has a SpLD so found early schooling hard going, didn’t read fluently until age 9ish, spelling is still awful.

However, we helped follow his talents which were mainly in sport. Supported him with organising and getting the right help, talked to him about education choices and helped him find his academic passion.

Read to him, sang songs, gross and fine motor skills taught through daily activities, played board games. Took an interest in what he had to say and encouraged him to explain his thoughts. I’m not the least interested in WW2 tanks, but he was so I’ve probably looked at every surviving example in England. (Still doing this, I’ve just bookend tickets to a museum in France for us all,)

Currently he’s on track for a decent degree, he’s thinking about a masters but thinks he’d rather apply for the JET program- he learned Japanese with an online tutor when his GCSEs were cancelled, his choice he didn’t want to wither away on his Xbox! Probably he’s slightly beyond his place on the bell curve, but not much.

I'm a child of two primary school teachers. My mother in particular helped me a lot with how to study, taught me things that I hadn't understood well at school, later helped with homework and generally our house was full of quiz shows, classical music, reading etc. I was and I am very academic probably due to the environment I group up in. They instilled a love of learning. They were also just two intelligent people and I always came top in those school IQ tests. There's some genetics but also a passion for learning that is passed on to the children if they are open to it (my brother, for example, was the opposite, not academic at all, although he is still an intelligent guy who has way surpassed me in terms of wage and ambition!). They can't do all the work though, I was certainly alone doing my exams at Oxford!

I'm a secondary teacher and my two aren't top of the class. However.....

1. Teachers like routine and I have my children in a regular homework routine.
2. I check they have all the equipment they need the night before.
3. I spend every day of the holidays with them, out and about, trying new experiences.
4. No term time holidays for us
5. No days off unless you are properly ill.
6. They have respect for adults and have been taught to appreciate teachers.

Teachers are (usually):

Intelligent
Well-educated
Passionate about education

No shit their kids tend to do well at school!

I'm not sure about "knowing their way round a mark scheme" because each teacher usually only teaches one subject. I'm a maths teacher, and I have no idea about assessment objectives in History.

But I do know the rough amount of work, and general attitude that my kids need in order to do their best. I 100% know which kids I don't want my kids to turn out like.

Oh, and there's no chance I'm emailing into the school to complain if my child gets a detention! I'm supporting those teachers all the way
And I explain very clearly to my kids that teachers can't always get every single judgement call perfectly right every single time, so even if they maybe didn't fully deserve that detention, shit happens, stay further away from the trouble next time.

Deleted (double post)

Family conversations were very pedagogical. So many learning opportunities in life. Never gave them the answer but helped them think it out and the potential consequences of actions.

I did help if asked with the major presentations and debates. But I was never the quick option because I’d insist on proper research, footnotes etc. But I’d beat the hell out of an essay plan and joining sections. They were always doing the writing and fully engaged. No one gets to slope off and leave me to it.

All 4 kids were high achievers in comparison to their peer groups at school. Uni had been a great leveler. I was a uni lecturer so I’m not surprised by this. Uni is punishing in France.

That's bundling in school teachers with university lecturers.

Doctors and lawyers are top. Why do you think they are so successful at getting their kids Oxbridge offers?

I teach primary and the things I think have helped my children are:

• high standards- I’m not accepting rushed homework and I’m not accepting cruising along, the effort needs to be there
• reading - my kids hated reading so we read posters, comics, the bits on the screen during a sports match, anything. They love reading now they aren’t forced
• finding the gaps- I’ve always had good communication with their teachers so if I know they’re struggling with fractions I know how to help
• I always help but I will never do their work for them and I will always encourage them to do it independently
• Take the pressure off- I always made it clear that their knowledge was way more important than a test score

My oldest went to a good uni and has a good job, my youngest is still at secondary school doing quite well.

I think this is a great point - my mother would have been very much of the "sometimes shit happens, get over it and on with it" school. The idea of her complaining to the teachers that I hadn't won star of the week yet or been picked for a good part in the school play or all the things that parents complain about on here and in primary school now is laughable.

So there was much less focus on external baubles and more on the importance of working hard as its own reward rather than for a sticker or a special prize.

I think that's a very useful life lesson!

A lot of very good points have been made already.

I could write more in this as I quit teaching partly to support my kids journey into higher education but I was a private tutor teaching maths, statistics, advanced maths, physics, chemistry, biochemistry parts of biology to A-level, etc... I take no credit for their efforts - they sat the exans - they were always motivated and conscientious and wanted to do well and they enjoyed school - they always had a positive attitude towards it right through primary - actually, I credit the primary school for a lot of this positivity. I really think there should be a metric that connects GCSE and A-level results back to the primary school - I'd be interested to see it.

I think one thing that really did matter was the fact I was on hand every hour of the day to answer questions on things they were stuck on or confused about - they could get the problems sorted out quickly at 8pm or 8am and any day at the weekend too. Often, kids that get stuck with school work have no one to ask and it's difficult when they get into school to find a teacher in the staff room or they have to wait until the next lesson - that can mean days of delays just to clear up one point that they're confused about or stuck with... and it requires such a lot of focus, commitment, effort and organisation on the part of the student to remember the problems they have encountered and to go and find someone to help them.

There are genetic influences and environmental influences on educational outcomes.
Environmental influences include diet, opportunities available within local district, money available for schooling and clubs, parental and family example and home environment etc.

Teachers will always live near enough to a school. They have means for a healthy diet, discounts on fees at schools in which they teach, plenty of books in the home and, most importantly, a love of learning and a belief in education and skills as a gateway to a successful life. They also know where best their kids need to spend their efforts at homewok.

I'm a trained teacher; my kids did well but I insisted no homework on weekends until 15 years of age. Joy in learning. Wide range of interests etc are important to a well rounded person.
Teachers often give choices to their kids (Do you want to learn dance, play football this year?) but also do not allow quitting in the middle of the year. That breeds resilience, respect for fellow team mates and kids experience that effort improves skills.

To impart a value system that believes in doing homework, enjoying reading, gaining skills and bettering yourself with your own efforts is a very strong gift teachers give to their children.

I don’t recognise a lot of this ( 25 years a teacher)

Id never teach in a private school so no discount on fees.
I’d be happy for my kid to leave a club he didn’t like. Making them stay creates misery not resilience.
Most parents give their kids choices.

For all the healthy diets available there seems to be a lot of overweight teachers.

l also when l was teaching never agreed with homework for any age. I gave it, because we had to. But a lot of homework was homework for homework’s sake.

Am a teacher, DD is bright and loves school.
I echo all the previous points about environment, reading, setting children up for success, and want to add: talking to DD about the children who don’t do well, or who misbehave. Always in general terms, never with names, but she sees the disadvantages of laziness, poor behaviour and not seizing opportunities. As a result, she is motivated, behaves well and is usually keen on most opportunities. We also discuss the broader picture, and have done from early years - good qualifications leading to an easier, more choice-filled future.

Surely it’s because they support the school and education rather they have some secret behind the scenes knowledge of marking schemes as the op is implying 🙄.

Think parents being negative and combative against the school is so damaging. Will teach children not to respect school and therefore likely to underperform. So the “standing up
for my child” brigade end up damaging their child’s education

I’m not teaching at the moment as I am looking after a poorly child but I can see why to a degree. I adore Shakespeare - much of my degree and postgrad was spent studying his work and I know all of the exam texts like the back of my hand. I read his plays for my own enjoyment. When I’m teaching Macbeth to 30 students none of them are getting the personalised help they need to understand the language or context. Try as I might, it’s basically impossible. In my own home my children could go and get a text off the shelf and we could go through it together. I also know exactly what they need to do in their exams and what they need to revise. There is a thread on here at the moment with a parent asking for song ideas for their child to study the lyrics for their poetry paper. It’s full of people suggesting songs but I know that the point of the assignment is for the student to find it themselves so that the teacher can see how good they are at picking out poetic devices. I have two children, one is disabled and the other is Ddeaf and I hold them both to quite a high standard when it comes to respecting their teachers. Equally, my daughter spent a dreadful year in mainstream and I was on the phone to that school every day, in the end I had to do her EHCP request myself. Perhaps I have seen too many children be failed by the system and don’t want it for my kids.

Sorry for the ramble - it’s been a long night!

Are you writing an article @waddauthink ?

I was a teacher before I had my DS and worked in primary and EYFS. As a result, I did a lot with him when he was little - I didn’t sit him down and ‘teach’ him, but teachers if young children know how to engage with children in a very specific way that promotes learning because that’s what they are trained to do. They will also naturally bring out more learning when helping with homework etc. Therefore, DS started school knowing all the phonics for reception and year 1, able to read pretty well and his speech and language were very good which helps in school. He’s now about to sit his GCSEs and I would say he’s at the top end of average for most subjects, very high in a couple, and he struggles with science but should still achieve a 5 or 6. My subject knowledge and ability to teach secondary is fairly non existent so he’s been on his own there.

I can’t imagine a teacher ever doing their child’s homework for them - in fact, I’d say that a teacher is much less likely to do that than any other parent because that’s will have annoyed them at work. It’s infuriating when a parent does the child’s homework because there’s no benefit in it for the child. Supporting the child during by asking questions, explaining and praising is great though.

I suspect we frequently overlook one of the biggest indicators of ‘outperformance’, additional tuition. I think private tuition is probably what creates an unfair advantage. If you can afford it, you get so much more learning time than those who cannot.

I would love to see a breakdown of the number of university students who were tutored v those who never received tuition.

There is research on this. For example, a 2011 article called "Do teachers' children do better at school?"

They found that yes they do in the UK and Ireland, compared to students with similarly educated parents. And the effect is MUCH bigger when the MOTHER is a teacher or lecturer compared to the father. The mothers give a bigger effect because they (in general) help with school work etc, while the fathers don't.

You may find the article interesting if you search for it.

I'm a teacher and so is my DH. Obviously I really value education and respect teachers. I'm not a primary school teacher, but I have also tried to think a lot about what DS needs to be able to do before starting school and encourage those behaviours as much as we can. We are naturally interested and take the kids to eg museums a lot which I suppose encourages cultural interest. Read to them both a lot because we understand why it is important but also we like doing it . No tablets as I can see later on what this does to kids. Ditto clear boundaries with behaviour as I can see what happens with kids I teach who have clearly never been told no. I won't be contacting the school ever unless it's something serious or to help out with PTA etc as I find it tedious when parents bother the school for no reason. Also I suppose we should be able to see the rationale behind decisions even if we don't always fully agree with them.

However, I know a lot of teachers, and for those with older kids not all of them are angels or super engaged in school. Kids are their own people and are shaped by other factors as well e.g. the relationship between their parents. However, anecdotally, I went to Oxford and quite a few of the state school educated people had parents who were teachers - I guess just super supportive and invested in their education. Ditto academics. However, a lot of the wealthy ones were children of business people, lawyers, bankers etc. So wealth obviously matters!

Nice to see a thread which is at least vaguely positive about teachers. Whenever I've seen posts about teachers' children it is generally people moaning about them getting the main part in the primary school play!

Some of it is quite subtle, a value placed on education, an expectation that you will do well at school, that it’s important.

I doubt many teachers have time to help with homework or writing and re-writing essays for a competition!

I would think it’s more about:-

1. Having a good routine as a family
2. Making sure they are properly equipped for school which helps them
3. Supporting school if they get told off for something
4. Being off during school hols & doing possibly more cultural activities like museums, National Trust type things (not hugely well off so anything cheap or free)
5. Expectation that they will behave appropriately from a young age - I was quite strict when they were little & have rarely shouted (both now teens & are polite & respectful)
6. When they were little talking about the world around them if we were out and about

I don’t believe teachers would sit and discuss mark schemes for exams or know the syllabus for a subject they don’t teach & I doubt they would have time to go over it all for each GCSE subject.

I would think genetics plays a part - surely children of lawyers, doctors, accountants, psychologists etc do well in life. I’d be surprised if teachers children outperformed children of those parents.

@waddauthinkSadly fewer and fewer parents read to their children. I’ve been told by parents, “Isn’t that the school’s job?”

It's about confidence in your ability to know what's needed. I don't questing the way I'm doing things or let my children question my expectations.

I don't think it's necessarily about curriculum knowledge, although it of course helps. I taught my children to read before they started school (they were all old in the year and academically ready, I should add). I'm an experienced phonics teacher but I taught all three of them with old school reading schemes as its my preferred way to teach reading and the books are generally a better quality with more opportunities for comprehension. I'm sure that friends and family members would have questioned my methods and worried it would confuse them later when they started school but I knew I could have them reading quickly and didn't over think it.