Teacher kids seem to outperform - insights?

[waddauthink]

I'm intrigued by the fact that most of the kids we know who have either teachers as parents or in the family - or were home educated - seem to outperform and go on to achieve the highest at A-level and beyond.

Many are very bright in their own right but if I were to plot a graph, I would assume that a normal bell curve would be still hold for kids/grandkids of teachers so there must be something else than just intelligence.

From my very large network (still anecdotal, I know), these kids seem to be the one that wins academic, all-round prizes and essay competitions. Although, I have to say, when I've read some of the essays (they were shared by school), I would question how much of that was down to the kids themselves - they were like written by an academic professor!

I do know from a friend whose mother helps with her kids - ex grammar school teacher; this grandmother definitely 'helps' her grandkids with homework more than most parents, I'd say.

Of course, being a teacher probably means you are able to instil a love of learning but I think there is something else that is also at play. Obviously I'm aware of the 'growth mindset' and try to instil this but it's only a small part.

These kids are often extremely hard working and diligent so that must play a significant part. Some of them are definitely the naturally most bright (I know it's difficult to judge but you can form an opinion) but still seem to get the very high marks.

I can imagine knowing your way around mark schemes and the AO1 or whatever they are called, and schemes of work and topics/topic tests must help but is there anything else?

Genuinely, it would be very helpful for non-teacher parents to know and I wonder whether it shouldn't be the main focus of education - to find and share the 'magic juice'/behaviours that leads to these types of mindsets.

So, if you are a teacher or have a teacher relative who spends time with your children - what do they do to help i.e. how do they discuss homework, what to focus on, how to approach tests/exams and coursework?

Would love to know too if perhaps kids of school teachers (or interaction with a grandparent etc who is a teacher) is correlated with a larger proportion going to top 10 universities than the general population?

TIA.

The kids of teachers I know all did well to middling and live pretty normal lives - ones a nurse, ones a teacher and the others work in sales and marketing.

Generally they were in top sets but weren’t ever at the top of those top sets.

So I’m not sure your theory holds water.

Child of a teacher and a former secondary school teacher myself. I have never done my kids' homework for them, or made them redo it because that wouldn't help them learn or nurture a love of learning in them. I don't analyse their work though the lens of the markscheme, I don't have that close an eye on what they're doing and I don't micromanage them. We have always prioritised books, reading and curious conversation. We go to museums and the theatre and exhibitions - not because of my teacher background but like lots of families who value education do.

I am skilled in explaining things well to kids and encouraging them to work with what they have in the way that best suits them - which for mine is definitely me taking a hands-off approach most of the time. That's one of the most valuable skills I developed as a teacher - to work with the individuals in front of you and to always be adaptable. It's not about giving them a leg up with some special insider knowledge of the syllabus!

Agree with a lot that’s already on the thread but I’d like to add questioning to the list. My non teaching partner was really involved in the education of our kids. When they were really little I noticed a massive difference in the kind of questions I’d ask in comparison to him. I really think asking the right kind of questions has a big impact on children’s learning.

The other one is a shout out to all the early years practitioners. There’s lots of research suggesting that the love of learning is developed at a really young age. My kids went to an old school style school nursery, rather than paid childcare. I’m pretty sure that the kids that had been in private nurseries knew more letters/shapes etc than mine at a similar age but I always felt that the school nursery staff really fostered a love of learning and curiosity.

I’d say on the whole teachers are less stressed about the education of our kids. My friends want their kids to do well and seem to get into the whole aspect of competing. I’m fairly relaxed with my kids, not bothered about test scores, didn’t push the SATs. After they get an assessment back we chat about do they now understand the bits that they lost marks on, I never really ask them their total score, or how they are doing compared to others. I think it’s really hard for some parents that don’t work in education to know the best way to support their kids.

Generally more patient when supporting with homework.
Looks to opportunities with days out to support topics.
Models reading for pleasure.
Identifying SEN and getting early help.
Behind the scenes conversations with colleagues about mark schemes.

I find there’s a lot of positive labelling when teachers teach other teachers kids too. My daughter’s English teacher thinks the sun shines out of her arse because we’re friends and she respects me. DD is probably above average but not excellent. I worry this skews her marking and there’ll be a day of reckoning on GCSE results day!

Most teachers value education very highly, do everything in their power to get their children into a decent school and can offer free tuition up to a certain level. A lot of my non-teacher friends worry about, and complain to the school about, non- academic stuff such as school lunches, fairness of detentions, school uniform, PSHE curriculum. Teachers tend to focus on other stuff. Teachers get big discounts for their own children if they teach in a private school in the UK or in an international school.

I used to be a teacher and my DD18 just got an offer from Cambridge. I haven’t helped her academically since early Covid days.

what we do in our house is regularly discuss any political or social issue in the news and we all like to analyse films that we’ve watched together.

It’s just a very general intellectual curiosity.

I can't say I have come across home Ed kids achieving well academically. Quite the opposite ime

It’s only useful information if you parent your children for grades alone. There are parents out there who really don’t put much emphasis on grades and top unis and focus on other areas of life.

But I can totally see why a teacher parent is a huge advantage to the kids that want to focus on education and a giant pain in the bum for the less academic focused kids.

OP, you seem to be doubling down on the fact that teachers cheat on behalf of their kids to get their kids ahead. Awards are such a tiny part of getting ahead, it’s an interesting thing to focus on.

I’m a teacher - one super bright DC who aced his exams, younger one who couldn’t care less 🤷‍♀️

I don't even think the parents "need" to be highly educated themselves. It's often enough that they value education and make sure their kids take it seriously, do their homework, read for pleasure, do revision, etc., right from the earliest age, as well as making sure they can read and write basic stuff before they start school. Give them the tools and encouragement to want to learn and put them in the right place to learn.

My mother was a teacher, but she didn't show any interest at all in my education at secondary school. Never once attended a parent's evening, never bothered asking for my termly reports, etc. I was horrendously bullied and she just basically shrugged and told me to toughen up. No pressure at all for me to do homework nor revise. Never asked how my day had been. If I wanted some extra resources for homework or a project, I was left to fend for myself, she wouldn't buy any books, wouldn't take me to the library, etc. She had a lot going on in her life, and somehow thought that because she'd gone to a good school and got a good education, then I'd be OK at the secondary school (a crap comp) as she just didn't realise how bad a crap comp can be. It was only in much later years when we could have adult conversations about it that it finally dawned on her that she was part of the problem why I left at 16 with no qualifications at all!

Me and OH were both on the same page with our son. Neither of us had gone to uni, both had suffered crap comps. Both had pulled ourselves up by doing evening classes to get qualifications, etc. - i.e. the hard way by studying alongside full time crap jobs!

We made sure our son could read and write and knew his numbers and basic sums before he started primary school. Our "plan" was to ensure he never fell behind and to keep him just ahead of the curve. We weren't teachers, but we researched the kind of things they were taught in school each year group and did "fun" learning alongside. We were well on top of his school work, we attended every parents evening, every school event, looked at his school books whenever he brought anything home.

We spent a lot of time with him helping him choose a secondary school. Went to every open day in the area, learned lots of information by attending their intro talks, talking to teachers during tours, etc. He chose the school most suited to him which was probably the most difficult to get to, but we facilitated the transport to get him there.

Throughout secondary, we were heavily involved. Checked his homework diary every day (then the online version later), always looked at his exercise books when he came home to check what marks he'd been given, talked through any areas where he seemed to struggle, etc. We could keep up, between us, until GCSEs, but by then he'd got into good habits, revision, homework, paying attention in class, so we had to take a step back and leave him to it as we really couldn't help at GCSE level. He passed them all - all 8s and 9s! Went into sixth form - again, far beyond what we could help with, but again, he was on the crest of the wave so as long as he kept up, did what the teachers asked of him, he was fine and ended up with a string of A*s.

Neither of us had been to Uni, but we'd basically "primed" him to go from an early age, so it was just the next stage for him. We had noone in the family to ask advice, so between the three of us did lots of googling for uni websites and we also learned a lot from fora like MN! Travelled all over the country to go to open days, then offer holder days, etc. He got in his first choice uni, and got a First degree in Maths. Our work was done!

So, no, you don't really need parents who've had a top class education themselves, expecially now so much information is available on the internet. It's attitude that matters most. One of my son's life long friends is from a nearby council estate with a lorry driving father and a shop working mother - again, no real education behind them, and certainly no professions, but they had the same kind of "highly motivated" parentage and he likewise did exceptionally well at school, then Uni (again, first in family) and is currently working as a programmer in Silicon Valley!

Personally, I don't really think that an academic background necessarily means the children are going to outperform. These days, I think parental attitude and involvement is more important. Of course, best case scenario is to have academic parents AND highly motivated/invested parents!

Lots of what everyone else says plus our kids we’re made to do the DFE times of study during gcse and A level - think an hour a day back then

Sorry, what is DFE times of study?

So, kids for GCSEs are supposed to do a minimum of 60 (might be 90 minutes, can’t remember) study per day after school. How we framed it was ‘that’s your job/contract with life so that you can get all this paid for - holidays/pocket money/decent food. We have jobs that give us that, as do you”.

as well as what everyone else says about really valuing educational activities and prioritising them.

Teachers will frequently experience the consequences of kids going off the boil/rails. I’ve seen incredibly bright children fall from a great height. It is truly tragic.
Being able to read subtle signs, managing progress and supporting socially is second nature for most responsible for children in a school setting.
It is like being a doctor and not intervening when it’s your own.

Op, lots of things come down to the impact of who you are as a parent and not so much what you do.

Values held at home and shown by modelled behaviour, habits and internalised expectations can lead to the children if some families (not just teachers) being hard working, having high expectations of themselves and self analytical. It’s not just teachers’ kids. If you look at super selective grammar schools with a high number of 2nd and 3rd generation migrant children, you’ll see a lot if this attitude to work is cultural.

It’s not that teachers do their kids’ hwk for them. But when they see a task they understand it and can usually explain the task simply so a child has an extra focused level of explanation about what’s needed.

Teachers (and other parents too) often understand about developing good study habits and help their kids develop them. But do remember lots of teachers try to do this with their kids and like other people, have kids that are strongly resistant and don’t manage it.

Teachers tend to be very au fair with special needs. They know how to support them and routes to diagnosis - many special needs teachers moved into that area after their own kids showed some needs and they developed an interest in it.

Teachers are familiar with assessment requirements, mark schemes, jumping through hoops for success. Teachers tell all their students about this but kids’ teachers probably just get a bit of reinforcement if the ideas at home.

i would also say that in the schools I’ve worked, staff kids have been the highest achievers (sometimes) and also the lowest. Don’t assume they all do well.

There can be a sense of suspicion from non-teacher parents about the achievements of the kids who are teacher children. Usually this is from non-professionals who think favouritism or similar is going on. In actual fact, most professional parents are very capable of supporting their kids well. Some do….and some don’t. Some take an interest and help support good study habits and others leave everything to school. It makes a difference.

Often non-professional parents with high aspirations for their kids also support really well or possibly push their kids…sometimes a bit too hard. But this can be cultural. Other families have very low aspirations or interest in education and don’t see a role for themselves as parents. It makes a huge difference. This is why we get attainment gaps with low achievement from white working class boys etc and kids from relatively well off families not always doing very well - because their families purely want the kids to have an easy life and not be pushed about anything - so the culture is one of being easily satisfied and pretty minimal effort. All generalisations of course. But there’s far more than having or not having a teacher parent.

Teachers are always degree educated, which requires a certain level of intelligence. Intelligence is largely genetic, so their offspring have an advantage already on a biological level.

Teachers value education and will prioritise it. The majority will research local schools and choose the best one for their child, almost certainly trying to avoid any truly awful ones, rather than just sending them to the closest one as many people do. They will support with reading/homework and value it so the child grows up feeling it is important and develops a good work ethic.

Teaching is relatively well paid, so their children are not living in poverty, which has a massive impact on educational and life outcomes.

Generalisations of course. My husband is the son of 2 teachers and was very lazy at school!! Plus of course non teachers will often do the things listed above too - they are not limited only to teachers.

In the end, parents are a huge advantage or disadvantage to kids …the biggest impact.
Kids with a stable and loving home, interested and supportive parents who have aspirations for them to achieve their best, and kids whose parents themselves are well educated have lots of benefits and a head start lots of kids are missing. All those parents don’t need to be teachers to be effective and supportive.

Reading this shows how different teachers are as parents although there is lots of common ground. I’m a teacher with children who have been successful in education ( not left uni yet so we’ll see about real life!) and I agree with some of this. Main things for me are reading with them when small, reading to them until they told me to stop, supporting school, and taking them interesting although not expensive places.
I have never overseen homework except when quite young as I’m too knackered working full time and being a single parent! However they know I’m not backing them up if they don’t do it so that has never been an issue.
I do love the idea that a primary school teacher in a really deprived area has any influence at Oxford or Cambridge though!! I also have been of absolutely no help in mark schemes of A levels. I guess I’m quite good at identifying stress points and trying to help them manage that.

Oh - all my children are absolutely adamant that they are never ever being a teacher!!! Must be the sight of me as I walk in the door at the end of a day!

i was expected to be independent with work my parents were too busy marking their pupils books in the evening. We always had lots books to read. Education was always promoted as the route to success. We always ate together and had lots likely discussions over dinner table. We also got lots of time with parents due to long school holidays and shorter work hours. So lots of reading and talking really no special help with homework or marking schemes just a rich environment.

If my parents (both teachers) heard that I'd misbehaved in school, they would tell me off. I didn't like that at the time but they showed respect for my teachers and for the value of education. When I went into teaching much later in life, the parents of my pupils often seemed to believe that their child couldn't possibly have done anything wrong and that teachers weren't honest or worthy of respect.

Reading as a baby/pre schooler.
Knowing what to look for in a good nursery and school.
Insisting on excellent behaviour and all homework being done (my child has never missed a homework).
Never any pressure to be perfect but a lot of focus on making a good effort.
Talking all the time and really explaining things - everything is an educational opportunity.
Going to all the parents evenings etc.
If something educational is interesting to them then providing time for learning more about it.
So much praise when things are good; calm, neutral consequences for poor behaviour.

I think it's then an upward spiral.

I sound like such a crappy boring mum - we actually have loads of fun together and I'm very chill on screen time etc. It's just that the other stuff HAS to be done and the context of this post is educational after all.

I would sneak learning in wherever I could - DD came with me shopping, I made a list for her with little drawings of what she needed to get and the quantities, I'd spell out or sound out words, say BIG step, little step, right leg, left leg, JUMP, ' st-o-p-pi - that sign says ''stopping'', Mummy' 'Wonderful - s t o p p i n g, stopping - can you think of another word just by changing one letter?' 'st-sk-sp - spotting!' 'Brilliant! Any more? Where are we going?' 'SHOPPING! I DID IT!', I'd stick in a bit of multiplication or division when cooking tea, there was always free rein on art stuff, we discovered algebra through switching carrots and potatoes for waffles and fish fingers (you work with what you've got)...things like that.

So she had a basic foundation of number, size, volume, letters and letter sounds, fruit, veg, colours, order by the time she went to school - this meant she was free to learn more instead of having to learn everything almost from scratch. Just as well, really - she wasn't having any of it where homework was concerned.

Thanks for all the responses, invaluable insights and I'll reflect and respond.

Just to say, most of the parents I know (ourselves included) read a lot to our children, engaged them in board games and educational games, discussions, visits to museums and encouraging doing homework etc. Perhaps not that every moment is treated as a learning opportunity although this is something I've definitely seen with parents/grandparents who are teachers. Wonderful to behold but also, as an outsider reflecting, seemingly quite exhausting too! Maybe a balance to be struck, as I've seen perfectionistic (anxious) tendencies in some of my teacher friends' kids. Obviously that drives hard work - and ultimately excellent attainment - but at what cost?

But I think perhaps the extent of the involvement in homework is what sets us apart. Or rather the framing of each homework task and how this is explained much better and more clearly if you're a teacher, and of course within the framework of what is expected - 'what good looks like'.

In my experience, teacher kids are often less stressed and pressured than many others. This is because firstly teachers know about student pressure and see the major problems it causes so are careful to avoid it.
Secondly, good work habits built through years of having a teacher parent means teacher kids often work smart, which means efficiently rather than harder.

Its a mistake to think having parental input as a teacher equals making them do lots of work or putting them under pressure.

Unfirtunatrky high stress levels are high amongst teenagers generally. Social media, exams feeling high stakes etc all combine to make many find teenagers years and exam years difficult. Parents of all types can often help or hinder this…but parents of all types also have kids with these problems

There are always families or adults who see kids who work hard or who do well as somehow being kids who MUST be under pressure or having a miserable time. These people see working hard as something the kids don’t choose but is forced upon them and somehow they want to resist or don’t even know they are miserable. I think some seem to understand that good work ethics and being naturally curious isn’t actually hard work. And perhaps some parents like to look negatively on kids or families (teacher families? ) who do these things or behave like this, because their own families don’t. And it’s a self-defence and justification mechanism to say ‘those poor kids’ or ‘they are pushed too hard and miserable’ or ‘let them just be children and enjoy themselves’ etc etc. And then when their own kids don’t do so well, they can decide it’s not because their kids didn’t work so hard, or connected to the way they parented, but due to teachers favouring their own kids or doing their homework for them, or pushing them and therefore always making them miserable.

Teachers are just parents as are others. All parents can instill good habits and work values in their kids …or try to. Or they can back off and choose not to. Everyone has a level of choice. Yes, teachers might well have some useful skills, but most of it is about values.