A Level - is this a good combination and is 4 manageable?

[ChildMissedTheBusAGAIN]

How does this combination sound?
And what’s the workload?
Is 4 manageable?
Is it best to do 3+AS only?
Predicted GCSEs in the range of 6-8.

• Chemistry
• Physics
• Politics
• Religious studies/Philosophy

Sixth form usually offers 3+EPQ or 3+Core Maths or 3+AS only

DD doesn’t want to do EPQ or Core Maths so wants to do 4 A Levels instead.

Although there is the option of choosing the AS only route for either Politics or Religious studies/Philosophy.

Doesn’t want to go to university and likely to go onto a degree apprenticeship.

Has been looking at:

• Nuclear scientist degree apprenticeship*
• Nuclear technician degree apprenticeship*
• Healthcare (radiation physics) degree apprenticeship^
• Healthcare (dosimetry) degree apprenticeship^

*96 UCAS points to include a STEM subject. Different pathways require a specific STEM subject at 32 points ^104 UCAS points including 32 from physics

Argh…. I thought I had explained my points

1. My point is you fit the courses to the child. Not the other way around.

2. 4 is exceptional and not needed and is the exception.

3. Under normal circumstances do 3 and pick the subject you need number 1, then those you enjoy, for my child who is straight level 9 she is doing 4 and expects it to be hard work - she’s planning on a minimum of 15 hours a week outside of the 10 frees she had to her work in - if you have a child that would struggle with that - consider it.

4. any chance of physics at uni you need maths and physics.

5. maths is hardcore. Dd did a gcse aged 13 and got a 9, two years later in year doing it and expected to get an A* she’s easily top of the year and found it hardcore. Enjoyable. But any less than a 8 you would really find it hard - I think.

those were my main ones……

oh and don’t forget you can drop an a level to an as or full stop

consider the post 18 courses and requirements

Well I seem to have managed to convince DD that 3 full AL is better than 4 AL.

We’re going to discuss with school, DD going to ask for a meeting, to figure out what her options are regarding taking 4 to start with and dropping 1.
Also going to talk about maths (core and AL) because of all the comments about physics.

She’s going to consider whether to do core maths, EPQ, AS politics or AS RS/philosophy.

Discussed AL biology but she doesn’t want to do 3 science AL (likes the variety of discussions and debate). So that’s a no.

Back up plans are other apprenticeships which are level 4 with HNC qualifications and potential to progress further. Some which only require EEE or one A (48 points) at AL. She doesn’t want to go to uni. She has her own reasons for this so I’ll stand by her decision if that’s what she wants. I agree she might change her mind so needs to get the best grades possible.

96 UCAS points is CCC.
104 UCAS points is BCC.
But it’s points so she can have higher and lower grades than those as long as they average. Only restriction is 32 points (grade C) in the relevant STEM subject - which will be either physics or chemistry depending on the pathway, hence, she is wanting to do physics and chemistry.

Did some asking around this afternoon after seeing your post @sheepdogdelight Doesn’t seem to be any preferred subjects for some of the apprenticeships. They seem to come into the apprenticeships with quite a range of AL but all have the required physics or chemistry. Will continue to ask around and figure this out.

This is a bog standard comprehensive.

Did look at the 6th form prospectus again and they do accept onto maths AL with GCSE maths grade 6. But they say there will be some work to do over the summer and for those with a 6 this is important work to complete and understand.

@MerryMarigold Yes, those grades are correct. It’s what it says in the 6th form prospectus. Under chemistry it says GCSE chemistry 6, GCSE maths 6. Under physics it says GCSE physics 6, GCSE maths 6. Doesn’t say anything about having to do maths. But DD is going to ask for a meeting so we will clarify the maths question.

That's lucky for your DD. I looked at everywhere to see if anyone would take a GCSE 6 for A level maths (as a backup plan) but no one did, not even the college!

Maths was the only subject to require a 7. Everything else was 6s.

We say grade 7 gcse for a reason. She won’t get above a C with a grade 6 in any a level.

If she takes physics without maths, then that’s completely pointless, as engineering focuses on the maths. If she doesn’t like maths then don’t do engineering. Why doesn’t she focus on the 2 humanities if that’s what she likes?

and as for 4 A levels, not a chance, sorry.

oh and don’t forget you can drop an a level to an as or full stop

not if the op is in England. Very few ASs now

We say grade 7 gcse for a reason. She won’t get above a C with a grade 6 in any a level

Well that's not true - particularly in humanities. (dd grade 6 history grade B A level dd2 grade 6 biology grade A A level worked her arse off though)

That is credit to her, grade 6 Gcse can be obtained with less than 50% of the marks. So you see why It’s not recommended.

My DD is doing Biology, Chemistry and RS and the workload is huge. She started off with Geography as her third and now regretting swapping to RS - she got a 9 in P&E GCSE but the religion content in RS is much greater and she’s not enjoying it as much, simply because the debate isn’t the same as her GCSE. She got a 6 in GCSE chemistry and is finding some of the A Level content challenging.

My older DD took Bio, Chem and Maths and again it was a huge workload. It’s not just the content they cover in class but also the amount of self directed study and revision that’s both expected and necessary.

Completely sort of derailing my own thread here.
I’ve just had a look at the grades.
6 looks to be the old B grade?

I know lots who did maths and science AL who only got a B at GCSE and they had a whole range of grades from A* to E.

Im quite surprised at the number of comments which are saying sciences and maths need to be a 7. What I’m gathering from that is many schools are saying the kids can’t do AL unless you have an A at GCSE.

I get that 6/B makes things harder than if you had 7/A but it doesn’t make impossible. I can’t see how having a 6/B would limit someone to do as well as they could in a subject if that’s what they were really interested in and wanted to put the work in for it. For some, being able to do subjects at AL, even if they have lower grades and end up with average/lower AL grades still opens more doors than it closes or than if they just had GCSEs.

At the end of the day DD only needs BCC (104 points) max to do any of the apprenticeships she’s looked at. I 100% would like her to do as well as she possibly can, get the highest grades she can, and have a string of A’s if she can manage it which would keep her options open, but CCC would be good enough for what she needs for the degree apprenticeships and even EEE for some of the other apprenticeships. (Although I think she is definitely capable of CCC or higher).

Appreciate all the comments on workload, I think we have sort of settled on doing 3 plus something else. Thank you @BabbleBee for the insight into RS. Good to know. Will make sure DD looks carefully at the syllabi to make sure she will be interested.

DDs sixth form has an ethos of giving people opportunities and has the lowest entry criteria around, but even it put its entry criterion for Maths A Level up to a 7 at GCSE last year, due to finding that those with a 6 (previous requirement) really struggled. It does still "only" ask for a 6 for sciences (and 5s for humanities, for reference).

Current A Levels are much harder than the older ones, so any comparison prior to the last few years is not really relevant. The danger of taking an A Level with a lower GCSE grade is not that they won't get an A*/A but that they run the risk of getting a U or a very low grade (D/E). Which, sounds like it might be ok for your DC to get a place on an apprenticeship, but she'd obviously be keeping more options open with higher grades.

noblegiraffe posts a diagram from time to time which shows predicted A Level grades for maths based on GCSE grades - it's quite sobering. Will see if I can find it.

This wasn't the post I was thinking of but gives you an idea ...
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4007205-How-maths-GCSE-result-predicts-A-level-maths-result-important-for-grade-6-7

Im quite surprised at the number of comments which are saying sciences and maths need to be a 7. What I’m gathering from that is many schools are saying the kids can’t do AL unless you have an A at GCSE.

Yes, that is what lots of schools and colleges want.

A six may be an ‘old B’ but in that system there was only one grade above an old B. Now there are three.

Also the sciences aren’t any A level, they are difficult academic subjects. If he picked sociology and film studies they would not require a six,

I'm a Science teacher OP.

It's very difficult to compare the new grading system to the old one. I wouldn't say a grade 6 is the old grade B at all. I think in the old system it was much easier to gain the top grades.

Specifications have been overhauled. There were things I studied only at A-Level that I'm now teaching at GCSE.

I'd be surprised if a college accepted students onto A Level Sciences with grade 6's at GCSE. The jump is quite difficult and I just think students have to work extra extra hard in order to keep up to even gain a grade C.

Does the route she wants to go down specify Sciences at A-Level? If not, I wouldn't recommend them if she's predicted anything below a 7 and she has at least some natural ability.

Sorry I've just re read your original post and seen that Physics is specified.

If your daughter chooses Physics, I highly recommend Maths to go alongside. If she's only predicted a grade 6 in Maths, I'd rethink Physics.

Just take a look at one of the specifications, AQA, for example. You'll be able to see the Maths demand and whether your DD will be able to cope.

I am going back to the days when GCSE's highest grades were A* here, so realise I'm a little out of date, but I took four A Levels and was very glad I did as it meant after the first term when I hated one (maths with Physics incidentally)... I had one I could drop then. I was grateful I had the choice. I then took an AS in Psychology for fun in my second year so I left with the usual 3 A Levels and an AS that most people did then.

I was surprised I hated my maths with physics so much, I had an easy A* at GCSE, but it was just loads and loads of very complicated theoretical equations. A Level sciences aren't easy though. I took Biology and even then there was a lot of chemistry to learn.

So personally I'd say take the four, see how it goes, potential to drop one they don't like is always there later on.

A six may be an ‘old B’ but in that system there was only one grade above an old B. Now there are three.

This. A six isn’t really a B if there are three grades above it. It’s really effectively a D

Except it's the equivalent of a B.

Well call it what you like, it’s four grades from the top, that’s the point.

a six is an ok grade. It’s not a great entry for A Level though.

That is absolutely untrue and really really unfair on all the kids who gets 6s (or even 4s and 5s).
The % getting 4 or above was pegged to those getting C or above.
Similarly the % getting 7 or above was pegged to those getting A or above.
Please don't spread misinformation it doesn't help anyone.

I've just checked the requirements of our local, good, gigantic (2000 per year) 6th form college.
Basic requirement is 5x grade 4 incl English & maths to do A levels.

For maths A level you need a 7.

For chemistry or physics you need a 7,6,6 in maths / 2 sciences / combined science in any order. They also strongly recommend that if taking Physics you also take maths.

Compare with history where you just need the standard offer of 5xgrade 4. You don't even need to have done history for GCSE.

I’m not saying it’s actually a D. It isn’t, it’s a 6. I’m saying it’s the fourth grade down, whatever you choose to call it. The fact that it is broadly equivalent to an old GCSE B grade is not really what was intended when they reset the grading system since the new GCSEs are harder.

the point is that you can get a 6 with a very low percentage score. As such it isn’t a great foundation for Progression to A Level. A Levels are hard and a lot of work.

A 6 is an ok mark. It isn’t a great mark.

The education system seems to have changed massively, makes no wonder it's a minefield for parents. I'm struggling to get my head around GCSE options for my DD, so threads like me make me realise just how much things have changed.

I did 4 A-levels and didn't drop at AS stage as I got an A in the one I was going to drop. Workload I don't recall being massive, but mine weren't "core" subjects as science most certainly wasn't my forte. Instead I did English Language, History, Gov & Politics and Business. Plan was to drop politics but just as well I didn't as I went on to do my degree in it. So my advice would be that 4 IS doable, but only if she's taking subjects she really likes. I didn't feel any pressure when taking mine as I really enjoyed all of the subject content, and I think this made a big difference.

Yes, a 6 is the 4th grade down because they chose entirely unnecessarily to introduce a 9 which serves no benefit whatsoever apart from bragging rights. Academic pupils go on to shine at A level, they don't need 9s.

Whereas the drawbacks of 9s are more obvious. They add to stress in perfectionists, add to feelings of 'failure' from those predicted 9s who 'only' get 8s, and make uninformed people think that 6 is a poor grade as opposed to being a perfectly strong pass.

You did A levels in the days when people did AS and they counted towards overall grades.

Things have now reverted to how they used to be when only the most able did 4, and usually those 4 would include Maths & Further Maths.