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Further education

You'll find discussions about A Levels and universities on our Further Education forum.

Original poster

A Level - is this a good combination and is 4 manageable?

96 replies

ChildMissedTheBusAGAIN · 13/12/2022 17:40

How does this combination sound?
And what’s the workload?
Is 4 manageable?
Is it best to do 3+AS only?
Predicted GCSEs in the range of 6-8.

  • Chemistry
  • Physics
  • Politics
  • Religious studies/Philosophy
Sixth form usually offers 3+EPQ or 3+Core Maths or 3+AS only

DD doesn’t want to do EPQ or Core Maths so wants to do 4 A Levels instead.

Although there is the option of choosing the AS only route for either Politics or Religious studies/Philosophy.

Doesn’t want to go to university and likely to go onto a degree apprenticeship.

Has been looking at:

  • Nuclear scientist degree apprenticeship*
  • Nuclear technician degree apprenticeship*
  • Healthcare (radiation physics) degree apprenticeship^
  • Healthcare (dosimetry) degree apprenticeship^
*96 UCAS points to include a STEM subject. Different pathways require a specific STEM subject at 32 points ^104 UCAS points including 32 from physics
OP posts:
Bunnyannesummers · 13/12/2022 17:43

What GCSE grades are they predicted for science and maths?

PacificState · 13/12/2022 17:44

I don't have lots of insight (someone more useful will be along in a minute I'm sure) but if he doesn't like maths, chemistry and physics will both be 'hard' A Levels - there's a lot of maths in both of them. Maths is a good combo with those two because there's lots of overlap. (Not trying to say he must take maths - this is more a q of whether he's good enough at it for it not to be a drag on him when studying chemistry and physics).

The other two are big essay subjects, so he's going for two hard mathsy subjects and two demanding essay subjects, but I'm sure he's worked that out already...

PacificState · 13/12/2022 17:45

She! Not he. Sorry.

TeenDivided · 13/12/2022 17:46

I think that looks like too much work for someone with predicted GCSEs 6-8.
Better off doing 3 very well than 4 just well.

ChristmasCakeAndStilton · 13/12/2022 17:49

I think core maths would be a really useful addition to the Physics and Chemistry. And given the apprenticeships that are being considered, dropping one of the essay subjects, and taking core maths would create a much lighter workload.

(Bio, Phys, Chem, Maths, General studies A levels here, many moons ago. Apparently it was hard core, but I enjoyed it)

MeJane · 13/12/2022 17:51

TeenDivided · 13/12/2022 17:46

I think that looks like too much work for someone with predicted GCSEs 6-8.
Better off doing 3 very well than 4 just well.

Me too. A levels are a huge step up.

At DD's sixth form they are only permitted to do four if one is further maths.

ItREALLYishimnotyou · 13/12/2022 17:52

I think she is being optimistic not doing Core Maths. I know I would choose a candidate with C and P and would look for Maths over someone who didn't. Many degree apprenticeships are only for people already working in the field so there is a dual hurdle as it were.

CoffeeBoy · 13/12/2022 18:01

MeJane · 13/12/2022 17:51

Me too. A levels are a huge step up.

At DD's sixth form they are only permitted to do four if one is further maths.

Show quote history

Same, and this is a very academic sixth form.

Original poster
ChildMissedTheBusAGAIN · 13/12/2022 18:40

Some great advice here. Thank you.

I was thinking 3+core maths might be better. It’s not that she doesn’t like maths. Just her maths grade is lower (6/7) than her science grades (8 for all 3). She also just seems insistent she wants to do politics and religious studies/philosophy and to do them means core maths doesn’t fit. She has at least accepted she can’t do 5. She’s definitely worked out she’s picked a hard tricky combination.

I’ve managed an engineering career with no A Levels in maths or physics, went through the apprenticeship route and now have a degree so I know it’s not the end of the world not to have maths (or A Levels for that matter).
That said. It makes things so much harder. I don’t want to bias DD because of my past decisions and experiences. I would like her to choose the correct subjects for what she wants to do and if people are looking for core maths then I’ll make sure she’s aware of that.

Will let her know 3 good A Level grades are better than 4 ok ones. Maybe drop an essay one for core maths.

Which do people think will be better out of politics and religious studies/philosophy? I don’t think it matters which one she does but is one seen as better/have a better link to the others?

A quick point on the apprenticeships:
These apprenticeships are definitely aimed at sixth form/college leavers. (Can guarantee one sectors are anyways, trust me on that one).
They are level 5/6 apprenticeships.
3-5 year apprenticeships which have 2 stages to them.
Stage 1 - 3 years. Foundation degree qualification. If they do well then they go to stage 2. If not, do end point assessment and finish with level 5 apprenticeship.
Stage 2 - 2 years. Finish off degree and do end point assessment. Finish with level 6 apprenticeship.

OP posts:
fizzyfood · 13/12/2022 18:51

It's the amount of hours that might make 4 A levels too much. The lesson time is one element of learning the other is the amount of independent study that's needed as well. Also if they have a small job and want some free time 4 could be too much. Also 3 A levels at top grades would probably be better than 4 at almost high grades.

cptartapp · 13/12/2022 18:56

DS2 does Chemistry. He does A level Maths too (9 at GCSE) and says Chemistry would be much harder for those not doing A level Maths. I think Maths makes up 30% of it or something?

Timezones · 13/12/2022 18:59

Would biology be more useful to him than the essay subjects? Plus the core maths?
If he wants to do an essay subject (and not saying it's a bad thing in terms of general life) then I suspect that religious studies would look better to a university than politics. But it probably won't matter that much if he's applying to do science. I'm not an expert though.

Timezones · 13/12/2022 19:00

And definitely not 4 A'levels. That sounds like a very bad idea. Especially as 3 of them aren't relevant to what he wants to do later. Doing that will only pull his other grades down.

Janieread · 13/12/2022 19:02

My dd got similar grades (6-8 with a 6 in maths - one mark off a 7!)

Absolutely no way she could cope with 4 A levels and absolutely not Chem and Physics.

At het school you'd be talked out of Chem and physics unless you had at least an 8 in maths.

Dd is doing 3 and an epq. Surely an epq on nuclear physics would be a far better option.

titchy · 13/12/2022 19:04

Way too much for a 6-8 kid sorry. And she needs to do Maths with Mechanics if she's doing Physics, not Core maths. If she's desperate to keep an essay subject then drop Chem, or just take to AS.

I assume you're Cumbria and she's aiming for Sellafield? How competitive are they? Degree apprenticeships are usually far far far more competitive than uni so she needs a plan B.

A628447777Z · 13/12/2022 19:08

It always amazes me how often people assume the child must be male when science and maths subjects and careers are mentioned.
The OP has clearly indicated their child is a daughter and referred to the child as she. (Apologies to the PP who corrected themselves)

A628447777Z · 13/12/2022 19:10

Anyways, as a maths teacher, maths with a 6/7 is going to be very hard. Your DD won’t get a good grade (based on past experience, there have been pupils who have really surprised me in the past and I’m proud of them for it).
So I support your DD in not choosing maths. However, core maths with a 6/7 is definitely manageable and she should consider taking it along with 3 subjects.
4 is going to be hard in terms of workload and work/life balance. Every 1 hour in the classroom = 1 hour self study.
I would say either essay subject would be fine. Maybe RS has a better view from a Uni point of view? But if she doesn’t want Uni then pick the one she like the sound of most. I would advise about putting some serious thought into doing a subject not studied before A-Level though. Sometimes the grass isn’t always greener.

StickyCricket · 13/12/2022 19:12

I think that might be too much for someone getting some 6's in GCSE's.

DS did 4 A levels, he got all 8 and 9's in his GCSE's and still thought it was a crazy amount of work, also his college would not allow students to take Physics unless they were also taking maths. He ploughed on through but said with hindsight he should have just taken 3.

SleekMamma · 13/12/2022 19:17

Definitely maths. Might not be needed per se but will make her life so much easier

Pixie2015 · 13/12/2022 19:24

Do 3 and do them well - understand the subjects and have time for revision.

RampantIvy · 13/12/2022 19:31

Most schools don't offer 4 A levels these days since they were decoupled. Usually only 4 subjects are taken when the fourth one is further maths as there is a lot of crossover.

At DD's school the students weren't allowed to take A level physics unless they were taking maths.

DD took A level chemistry without maths and achieved an A (this was in 2018, so it was the new syllabus, but before covid).

It will be very difficult to achieve excellent A level grades if your DD took all 4 subjects @ChildMissedTheBusAGAIN.

No university asks for four A levels and all universities, including Oxbridge, medicine and vetmed will offer on three not four subjects. They will be looking for AAA or higher, not AABB or ABBB or lower. Quality over quantity.

The other option is to start with four, especially if some of them are untried subjects, then drop one after a couple of weeks and concentrate on three.

Original poster
ChildMissedTheBusAGAIN · 13/12/2022 19:37

So points to talk to DD about
4 = not manageable crazy amount of work with no life
Consider

  • core maths (maybe maths but this might be too hard?)
  • biology (she hasn’t mentioned this one, interesting point made about usefulness)
  • EPQ? (I can see core maths as the better option compared to EPQ, unless she does Maths A Level rather than the essay subjects?)
  • Finding out whether one can be trialled and drop one. This is probably ok as they offer AS option for the 2 essay subjects. School don’t really offer 4, it’s 3+ Core maths, EPQ or AS only. It was something I was going to ask about if it made sense or was manageable to do 4.
Theres only 2 which aren’t relevant, the essay ones. Chemistry and physics are very relevant to future career ideas. School only want GCSE grade 6 in chemistry, physics and maths to do chemistry and physics at A Level. No other restrictions.
OP posts:
Janieread · 14/12/2022 09:46

Are you sure they still do AS levels in RS and other essay subjects?

Janieread · 14/12/2022 09:49

Sorry - I've reread your OP and you say they do!

Also that she doesn't need high grades at all if she only need 96 points (wow! That seems low?) so definitely don't bother with 4!

cantkeepawayforever · 14/12/2022 10:02

4, especially a disparate 4, is very hard work. (Maths, Further Maths, Physics, Chemistry = hard but manageable, as there is so much overlap)

Both DS and DD did A levels at ‘start with 4, usually drop 1’ schools - DS’s school retained ASs for longer, while DD’s had specific ‘drop or carry on?’ points during the course. They did this because they found students often disliked or struggled in one of their choices after the jump to A-level, and dropping one while leaving 3 was much more successful than switching to another course some weeks in.

So one course of action would be to ask the school if they would be prepared for DD to start all 4 and drop 1 (probably of the essay subjects, but be prepared for career idea changes) after 2-3 weeks.

Another would be to include at least core Maths instead of one of the essay subjects, as this will make the Physics in particular SO much easier / avoid her having to spend loads of extra time mugging up the Maths anyway.

Ds dropped down to 3 plus very high extra-curricular commitments related to his future direction; DD kept her 4 right through to the end but was pandemic affected - but both had 8s and 9s or equivalents at GCSE in all of their A level subjects.