School Head of Dept getting involved in daughter’s A level choices

[W0tnow]

We moved to Spain several years ago, in part because we wanted our children to learn another language. My oldest daughter has picked it up very well. She recently did her GCSEs and did brilliantly. One A, and the rest A*. (She goes to a British international school) She plans to study in the UK.

She wants to pursue a career in science. Biology is her passion. She is choosing Biology, Chemistry, Maths and Spanish for A levels. Or she was.

She was taken aside by the head of STEM yesterday and advised that if she wanted to get into a top tier UK university, she should drop Spanish and take up further maths as she will be looked on more favourably. All of the courses she is interested in require biology, and one other science or math - which she obviously has covered.

Im really annoyed that he spoke to her, she’s convinced he is right, but it just doesn’t sound right to me. We’re Australian and know very little about the UK system. We moved here so the kids could learn the language! She received a 95%ile result for Spanish and he’s convinced her she should give it up! There is also the issue (in my mind) that he has convinced her to narrow her focus. Surely if anything, universities look favourably on students with a broader outlook/ background?

FM is a great A level but unless she either loves maths with a passion or plans to take it as a uni degree (or both) then there is no need to do the A level.

No need for four A levels at all tbh but if Spanish would be enjoyable then it's worth doing for sure. If she wants to study biology or similar in the UK then one other science is helpful, but she has that covered.

Dd is studying a masters in chemistry at a top uni. She did A levels in Bio, Maths, Chem, physics.

She is studying French as a subsidiary subject.

DD studied biology at a top uni. Maths A Level not needed, let alone Further maths.

Generally I think its great that the head of dept is getting involved, speaks highly of your daughter.

The easiest thing to do would be to contact some admissions depts from universities she might be interested in and ask them directly.

I think both a level groupings sound great, but I didn't take maths beyond gcse can't comment on further maths. It shouldn't be hard to find out though.

Depends what STEM she would be applying for exactly. There are plenty where further maths would be considered favourably.

There are so few opportunities to study FM, and so few candidates able to take it, that I think it would look favourably on an application. There are other considerations to influence a decision, though.

It's because she's doing Maths. Most maths students do further maths. Furthers maths is a "better" option in a very competitive field as it shows high calibre students with the correct mindset for doing STEM; mathematical, analytical, detail orientated, etc etc blah blah.

I understand why they'd want her to drop Spanish. She can be fluent in Spanish without an A-level. (Im multi lingual but don't have a levels in the language).

Although if she is set on biology, then she shouldn't need further maths and she should stick with Spanish.

Wish her all the best!!

I think its really good that he is encouraging your daughter and giving her the option to consider.

"Surely if anything, universities look favourably on students with a broader outlook/ background?"

Basically - no.

I doubt that many if any universities would look for further maths for a biology degree. That being said taking further maths does keep a lot of STEM options open for her.

It's because she's doing Maths. Most maths students do further maths.

I mean, that's simply not true. In DS2's year (he did maths btw) there were two classes for Maths A level as it is a popular choice, a total of about 35 students taking it IIRC.

There were seven people taking FM. You have to really love and excel at maths for FM to make any sense.

Just a heads up. My DDs head of year was trying to get her to take French instead of Spanish for gcse. Gave all sorts of reasons, none of them involving DDs preference, ie she actually enjoyed Spanish. I "over ruled" and insisted she took Spanish as her choice esp as she hated the French teacher, loved the Spanish teacher/language. Turns out it was due to financial costings/teacher ratios and nothing to do with DD possibly achieving a good grade in French or her uni admissions.

If you take lots of science then you need an enjoyable subject too. It might not help her for uni, but it will certainly help her in later life, travels and maybe job opportunities.

My Dd went to a very academic school in the U.K. and the headmaster would not allow 4 A levels to be taken by anyone unless two of them were maths and FM. He said 4 was unnecessary and would for most students be to their detriment.

so maybe from that pov there’s an argument to dropping Spanish for FM but I also agree with you that FM isn’t needed.

My daughter is about to start a biology degree. She took A levels in Biology, psychology and PE along with core maths. She received offers from Nottingham Uni, Loughborough, York, Sheffield and Sheffield Hallam. No maths a level, chemistry or further maths needed. As long as 2 science subjects at grades AAB then all good. Also she could have applied to Durham, Manchester and Bath uni needing AAA. It was only oxbridge, Scottish uni and UCL etc that insist in chemistry. Bottom line is to take a levels that fit the criteria that you enjoy and you can get the highest grades in. A few of DDs friends took chemistry and got a B and ruling them out of their first choice uni. Unless she really loves maths no need to take further maths.

I teach at a high ranking U.K. uni, and for biology or biological sciences she would need maths but not necessarily further maths. If she was planning on studying physics or chemistry, I’d say go with the further maths; but not for biology.

In fact it’s also important to keep interest and enthusiasm going during A-levels, and Spanish will give her a bit of variety in terms of literature and cultural learning (it isn’t just a language A-level as people seem to assume).

Some schools, especially very traditional or overseas schools, still seem to think it’s unusual to mix sciences and arts at A-level, but that’s no longer true. Many applicants have a mix — many more than used to be the case even ten or fifteen years ago.

I’d suggest simply getting your daughter to politely say that she’s thought hard about it and taken their advice on board, but she wants to keep Spanish, as she feels passionate about it and so she would get a higher mark; whereas she would be less passionate about further maths. (FM is hard, actually; and only really enjoyable for real maths enthusiasts).

I speak as someone who also did maths as part a mixture of arts and sciences A-levels a long time ago when it wasn’t very common to mix the two, and I had to ignore a lot of school “advice” to do so — but it was the right move in the end!

Good luck to your DD!

You are annoyed that the head of year spoke to your daughter and offered her advice?

That’s very strange.

Surprisingly enough not all teachers/heads put children ahead of their school stats/funding.

You only have to look at primary schools and SATS to know its not about the children, its government ranking and funding. Been that way for donkeys years. OP is right to be wary.

Government ranking for A-levels for an international school in Spain. I’m not really familiar with how that works, could you explain?

No. Neither you or I can read his mind of why, but it isn't always as clearcut and obvious as some people think. I was stating op was right to question it.

Yes, but you mentioned government ranking and funding, how are you saying that applies here? It seems as though you are inventing objections where none may exist.

It’s a good thing that the head of department has shown an interest in and advised a student about their A level choices. You are wrong to be annoyed that he is doing his job. Just because he gives her advice, doesn’t mean she has to take it.

The question is whether he is correct. He may be well-informed about Spanish universities but not about U.K. universities.

Most U.K. students do 3 A levels, though the strong Maths students often do Further Maths as an add-on 4th. Biology, Chemistry & Maths are strong choices for a Biology degree, so I don’t think it actually matters which subject she choose for the fourth, or even whether she does a fourth at all.

Further maths definitely isn’t needed. If he’d said these 4 A-levels would be a lot of work so swapping Spanish with FM would reduce the amount of work then I think that would be more accurate.
Or maybe they’re struggling to timetable it properly.

Hmm, I think I agree with the school.

sometimes, a GCSE or A-level in a native language is discounted a bit by university because it is easier for that student. your DD may not be a native speaker of spanish, but living in spain for years may make it look like that. So it is not clear that Spanish A-level will be worth the same to her as FM A-level.

If she doesn't like FM, then a different writing subject could be a good option. e.g. Psychology which has essays but also science.

Or if she does Spanish, make sure her UCAS form explains why and that she is not a native speaker.

You don’t need 4 A levels to do a Biology degree at a good university and you definitely don’t need Further Maths. FM is pretty hard too, even for students who are very good at maths. If she wants to do Spanish she should!

Are you sure it's not you that wants her to do Spanish rather than her? Just asking.

Different units demand different subjects for courses.
Why is Spanish a level a must,? It doesn't fit with her science a levels ?