Why are engineering degree courses suddenly all wanting AAA

[CatM1nt]

Looking at next years entry and I’m sure some were AAB previously when we looked.

@CatM1nt

Sheffield wants 3 AAAs now.

He isn’t complaining I am. He is getting low, disheartened and thinking an engineering degree at a good uni isn’t going to be possible for him.
Kids thinking AAB/ABB predicted grades are shit is really sad.. They’ve had an awful year thanks to Covid, this kind of crap on top is pants.

They're not shit grades but it actually sounds like he's being realistic. Depending on how you define 'good', an engineering degree at a too university isn't going to be possible for him. That's fact (unless he can pull up his grades). Of course that's low and disheartening, it's shit he isn't going to get the grades to do what he really wants but life is shit sometimes.

You need to encourage him to see the options that he does have and there are lots. He can still do a degree in engineering. He's in a lot better a position than the person who has realized they'll never be a doctor or the kid who just isn't good enough to make it to be a professional footballer. He can still be an engineer and he can go the degree route.

@CatM1nt

Sheffield wants 3 AAAs now.

He isn’t complaining I am. He is getting low, disheartened and thinking an engineering degree at a good uni isn’t going to be possible for him.
Kids thinking AAB/ABB predicted grades are shit is really sad.. They’ve had an awful year thanks to Covid, this kind of crap on top is pants.

I don’t think kids with those predicted grades do think they are shit! They may not get offers from the top RG universities which may be looking for A/A*s, but there are still plenty of universities out there! Have you looked at Liverpool-they are often lower for some reason.

Which non-RG have you looked at?

To be honest, you come across as angry and making excuses instead of being proactive and looking at what his options are. As a family of engineers, surely you can’t be trying to convince us that your child is underprivileged?? Engineering is so popular because it’s well paid, he obviously comes from an intelligent family and he will have had far more privilege than a lot of children. Surely as an engineer, your husband knows that there are very prestigious apprenticeships from the likes of BAe and Rolls Royce that would earn him a degree while he gets paid. There will be plenty of other and smaller companies offering the same. Saying it’s not fair won’t change things, you/ he need to start looking at all the options.

saying AAB isn’t good enough is shit and wrong. We know it is because he has a father with an Mech engineering degree and MSC Masters who got in to a red brick uni with BTechs and who has a successful STEM career now. One of his grandfathers was a very successful aeroplane engineer and the other an electrical engineer

You don’t get offered a place at university because there are some engineers in your family though.

What’s an MSC Masters?

Also, extra curricular activities don’t need to cost much at all. He could have joined a cadet force (well he still could but not for long). He could volunteer to help in his community. He could get a job washing cars or something to get himself into a workshop. He could ask to do some work experience.

In fact has he thought about joining the armed forces and doing an apprenticeship through them?

Sheffield wants 3 AAAs now. Sheffield is consistently ranked in the top 10 or 20 universities for engineering in the UK. They're top 100 world wide. They're a top engineering university, one that people who get top grades go to. It doesn't mean your grades are shit if they're not good enough for Sheffield. I think of you're going to help your son through this you need to adjust your mindset.

Also, when DD was choosing unis (not for engineering) and we looked at the uni guide website, there's a facility where you can click next to the "standard offer" A levels and see what was the average "achieved" A levels.
Several universities that offered AAA or AAB had an average intake the previous year of far less than that. (One was something ridiculous like a standard offer of AAB and average achieved grades of BBC).
I do appreciate that the last year will have skewed that but in normal years lots of universities do take students who have not achieved their grades. (With engineering being so popular I appreciate that not all will but some definitely will).

My DH is o&g mech engineer. The job market is massively over saturated. Nowadays everyone wants electrical engineers.
But if you can get your foot in the door with some of the large companies in mechanical engineering you'll be earning more than a grad without the uni debt.
Some examples;
EDF
BAE
Rolls Royce
AWE
Atkins
Equinor

He shouldn't be despondent. Yes Soton, Sheff may want 3 x A at the moment - but they may well end up taking lower next year. And there are post-92s with lower entry requirements which are just as good.

So. Deep breath. Apply for 2 with 3 x As, one around AAB/ABB and two lower - make sure a couple of the five also offer a foundation year. Then pick firm and insurance sensibly. And check what's in clearing NOW.

Would it not be better to focus energy on how to convert his B grade to an A?

Could you get him a tutor? Could you book him on a holiday revision course? My DH used to work summers at the Harrow revision camp and it was very much geared to uplifting specific subject results by a grade or so. Could he use an online platform like Seneca to supplement school teaching?

This is all a bit artificial. The majority of universities would accept him with ABB. Even this year with the huge increase in grade A's he could have got into RG universities which state AAA with ABB through clearing.

There are also options for foundation years.

Both my children have done Engineering degrees at different universities. One only finished this year but both were offered A* AA to join the course, so were their friends who did engineering. An offer of AAA is actually quite low.

So could they give a lower offer?

Some might give lower offers. Others will offer AAA but actually accept lower on results day. And others still will have places in Clearing with much lower than their standard offer.

The trick is to apply to a range of universities - maybe two aspirational (which may or may not make him an offer), two realistic (which hopefully will) and one that will be fine even if he bombs his exams for some unexpected reason. And even have a shortlist of those that he will target in Clearing if all goes to pot.

Also do your research about which ones care about things like extra curricular stuff. Not all of them do, and there's no point stressing about the cost of stuff that isn't actually going to help him with his application. Get him to go to open days (even if they are online) and listen carefully to what they are actually looking for. It's surprisingly variable.

My sister just got a place at Imperial to study engineering, Offer was AAA with the A in maths. It’s not unusual for offers to be so high although one university said AAB if if it was her insurance or CCC if she chose it as her firm.

I think that entrance exams for some university courses is the only way to go. Not ideal at all, but A level grading is now not a reliable tool.

StillRowing

Not unusual for imperial but he wasn’t looking at Imperial. He was looking at other more realistic unis last year and things have changed.

You need to look at a broader range of universities. He can still get a decent job as an engineer with a degree that isn’t from a Russel Group university.

As a PP said he can still apply to the ones that want AAA, but also apply to ones with lower grades aswell.

@CatM1nt

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58172292.amp

Well I think the private/ state divide is going to be playing a part.

That's nothing to do with teachers giving better grades for the same work though. There are two big factors:

1. Many (though not all) independent schools are selective, so only take the brightest students anyway which is why there is usually an attainment gap.
2. Independent schools moved to online teaching as soon as lockdown happened, so their pupils haven't missed much, if any, work. The second factor should hopefully pass quickly and the gap will settle to where it was.

Foundation year?
If he’s capable as you say, it will very quickly become apparent. In the end it’s the result that counts, not how you arrived at it.
All the best to him.

@Howshouldibehave

saying AAB isn’t good enough is shit and wrong. We know it is because he has a father with an Mech engineering degree and MSC Masters who got in to a red brick uni with BTechs and who has a successful STEM career now. One of his grandfathers was a very successful aeroplane engineer and the other an electrical engineer

You don’t get offered a place at university because there are some engineers in your family though.

What’s an MSC Masters?

MSc = Master of Science.

Nothing to do with private schools having their wages paid by parents and results getting bums on seats? Hopefully it will be looked into. Maybe all state kids need contextualised offers.

It's simply competition: supply and demand.

If places are over-subscribed, an easy way to choose if by grades. The more applicants with higher grades, then those with lower grades will be pushed down the list.

Why would a university accept someone with AAB and reject loads of others with AAA?

2 of my kids have done/ are doing engineering degrees. Both had AAA as their standard offer across the board ( entry in 2019 and 2015).
OP if your dc does want to go to uni them get them to check out foundation years as a prelude to the MEng, to look at BEng degrees ( can transfer across if progress good) or Hull ( just checked and still offering BBB)

But yes ultimately he has to focus on getting the grades up. Have told him not to think of uni at the moment and just focus on that. I don’t like the pressure and frankly think teens have got enough without additional pressure like this.

@CatM1nt

Shit. This is really putting my ds off. He says he can’t face looking at UCAS now and feels really demotivated. His predicted grades so far are AA/ B maybe even ABB with an EPQ. He did it on Quantum Physics but log book late at times so sure he won’t get an A for that.He is an AAB type student. He thinks he won’t get in anywhere. He is a born engineer from a family of engineers but a bit scatty.

That's so frustrating about the log book!! I get so annoyed when schools don't emphasise the importance of the log book in the final grade of an epq