Why are engineering degree courses suddenly all wanting AAA

[CatM1nt]

Looking at next years entry and I’m sure some were AAB previously when we looked.

Would he look at an apprenticeship? Or is he really after the uni experience?

It isn’t a private school state school thing though. Its just a grade inflation thing. It affects everyone.

Hi OP. Don’t panic or start thinking about foundation courses yet. If he can realistically achieve AAB he’ll be just fine for securing a university place for next year for Engineering.

There might be more kids with AAA this year but they weren’t all be doing Physics and Maths. In fact those subjects saw smaller increases in top grades than most others.

The grades that universities offer and the grades they accept are two very different things. The reason that they will be increasing their typical offer grade so dramatically is to cover off another year of grade inflation. The problem with typical offers is that they represent a contract, which means they have to accept students who meet it. By putting up your offer to something ridiculous like AAA from ABB you just leave wiggle room to see how grading pans out next year before deciding where the cut off will be. Places like Imperial and Cambridge really will expect As but most of the others will end up taking kids on results day with AAB or less. Especially if there’s a gradual winding back of the number of top grades.

He could start off on clinical engineering.
My dh got in on a band 3 with a little work experience (basically can you take apart and put a wheelchair back together) and A levels.
Apprenticeships, I'm sure there are some out there.
It may just be a case of getting some experience and working his way up the field if he can't get into a uni.

He could look into apprenticeships, I know a few who have done it that way round, then get degrees after. I disagree with the poster that said all the best engineers don’t have degrees though
All the best engineers I know have degrees and went the university route, and this is from over 20yrs in the industry!

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-58172292.amp

Well I think the private/ state divide is going to be playing a part.

It can’t be all unis though that require this. I just looked at Sheffield Hallam mechanical engineering course and they want 80 ucas points. And they have spaces in clearing currently.

So he needs to put down some different aspirational ones and then some safer options?

70% to 39% in grade As

It’s just shocking and frankly I can see why my ds is getting so dis heartened. Pretty sure he won’t be the only one.

Honestly, don’t fret about the private/state thing. Universities are well aware that students with AAB from state schools perform much better at university than students with AAB from private schools. There has been a lot of research done into it and it is reflected in the offers made. For all the headlines about grade inflation in private schools there are also ones like this. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9871431/amp/Privileged-students-twice-likely-turned-universities.html

Is there a particular branch of engineering he wants to study? Civil/chemical/auto?

I think then general engineering degrees are often higher requirements than some of the specialised, particularly at non-RG uni level.

An alternative might be to consider a subject closely aligned to his ideal degree and then ‘top up’ at masters level? Eg, my colleague studied construction management at undergrad and then took a masters in civil engineering, he is now chartered and a senior manager at a civil engineering firm.

This would be a good moment to have a look at engineering courses that are available in Clearing this year. It will give you a good idea which universities are actually accepting students with lower grades than their standard offer. There are lots of engineering courses at AAB or below.

If it's not already been said, try looking at some of the less mainstream engineering courses or engineering with another subject. These are usually a little less competitive.

So could they give a lower offer?

They need to get that out there as there are going to be some very discouraged kids out there at an important stage of their education.

And as for extra curricular….. My poor sons haven’t even been able to do driving lessons. Motivation, MH and wresting with online learning is so much harder for those less privileged. Accessing extra curricular that isn’t ££££ is harder too. They’ve been cooped up all year and will have tumble weed application forms. My 2 are probably luckier than many too.

I really feel for teens.

As I said, the course that was AAB in the 90s is now A A A.

The reality is, engineering has massively increased in popularity as a degree, there has been significant grade inflation and there are very popular qualification routes that don't involve a degree. DH was actively discouraged from doing engineering in the early 90s as it wasn't seen as a 'good' career (he regrets this now - it would have been a very good degree/job for him).

As others have said, it doesn't mean he can't become an engineer but that he needs to either look lower down the list (since when has Southampton been thought of as a lesser engineering degree?!) or he should look at apprenticeships. There are lots of mechanical engineering degrees that take at AAB or lower, it just isn't going to be top 20.

As someone else has said, if he does come from an disadvantaged educational background then offers may be lowered for him as well but you seem to accept he's just not a straight A* student, which I've taken to be you also saying that there's no realistic way for him to increase his grades by working harder. Given there are limited numbers of places why should he get a place over someone who is?

It's a hard thing to have to accept but the reality is children can't 'do whatever they want to do' if they just 'try hard enough'. People have limitations and you need to support him to work within those, stretch them yes but the child who isn't academically capable of A A A* on a good day us just never going to go to Imperial for engineering. It's really common when looking at university applications for students to get their first hard hit from the real world when realising that they can't do the degree they really want to.

He absolutely can become an engineer, it's just he has to look at the more realistic routes in than a top 20 degree course.

Engineering is so popular at the moment.
At my children's school, for years history and medicine have vied for the most popular university destination. Engineering has outstripped those this year.
My 16 year old is literally the only one from his friendship group not planning to apply for engineering.
Although I suspect this means that there will be very high grade requirements at some unis, they won't all be.
This year a friend had an offer from Nottingham with AAB and from NTU with BBC. Both are good degrees from what they said (I'm not an expert in this!) I think there are options other than AAA unis but it might require a bit of looking.

@CatM1nt

You’re kidding. So over half of kids are diligent all year and all schools can produce evidence to show over half are AAB. Are kids not already predicted AAA screwed then for next year?😩

Yes

Those who took a gap year, with assessed grades will be competing with the class of 2022, whose GCSEs were an assessment debacle, but who will be sitting A levels after huge disruption in their lower sixth year. There is still no word on whether A levels will be tailored (smaller 'core' more questions to choose from on the other options?) and there is realistically only one term of teaching time left

They are also the pupils whose first experience of major exams will be these A levels, so exam stress mistakes might be higher.

I'm really hoping that there will be contextual offers if the difference between assessed and exam grades really is that conspicuous.

Sorry, OP, I know that's rather damning of your DS and his prospects even for next year. But there needs to be hope for fairness for the class of 22 (the double affected year group, who will be sitting exams next year)

It’s worth remembering that the majority of private schools are selective rather than take all comers.
And will have high standard entry tariffs to their 6th forms, so you would expect those students to do well academically.

This year, anecdotally I’ve heard some very eyebrow raising stories from friends with DC at both private and state schools with regards to how evidence was secured to justify a grade. Obviously students aren’t suddenly twice as bright as 2 years ago, the system has let down a lot people including those now sitting on inflated grades and about to start university on courses they will find too difficult. I think the drop out rates might turn out to be huge.

Hopefully third year in, the UK will return to proper externally assessed and validated exams. Your DS can only focus on what he’s doing and on his results to be in with the best chance of a place on a course he wants.

There are plenty of places that will accept those grades, they're just going to be "lower down the list", your son just needs to accept that he's not "top university" level, it's not the end of the world! As others say, there is always clearing, though that might mean a scramble fro accommodation.

There’s lots of good places that don’t require AAA - check the ucas listing and places like Cardiff, UEA, Coventry, Lancaster, Sheffield, Loughborough all indicate lower than AAA for a 3 year course. It’s been a tough couple of years - good luck

@Normaigai

As I said, the course that was AAB in the 90s is now A A A.

The reality is, engineering has massively increased in popularity as a degree, there has been significant grade inflation and there are very popular qualification routes that don't involve a degree. DH was actively discouraged from doing engineering in the early 90s as it wasn't seen as a 'good' career (he regrets this now - it would have been a very good degree/job for him).

As others have said, it doesn't mean he can't become an engineer but that he needs to either look lower down the list (since when has Southampton been thought of as a lesser engineering degree?!) or he should look at apprenticeships. There are lots of mechanical engineering degrees that take at AAB or lower, it just isn't going to be top 20.

As someone else has said, if he does come from an disadvantaged educational background then offers may be lowered for him as well but you seem to accept he's just not a straight A* student, which I've taken to be you also saying that there's no realistic way for him to increase his grades by working harder. Given there are limited numbers of places why should he get a place over someone who is?

It's a hard thing to have to accept but the reality is children can't 'do whatever they want to do' if they just 'try hard enough'. People have limitations and you need to support him to work within those, stretch them yes but the child who isn't academically capable of A A A* on a good day us just never going to go to Imperial for engineering. It's really common when looking at university applications for students to get their first hard hit from the real world when realising that they can't do the degree they really want to.

He absolutely can become an engineer, it's just he has to look at the more realistic routes in than a top 20 degree course.

I agree with this. Also, if his father has an engineering degree, a masters and a job in STEM, the OP’s son has advantages compared to many.

I appreciate the OP is wanting to vent a bit. But, as someone who interviews engineers for jobs, the best skill he could work on is learning to proactively seek solutions to problems, rather than complaining. OK, he can’t do some activities due to COVID - what could he do instead?

Sheffield wants 3 AAAs now.

He isn’t complaining I am. He is getting low, disheartened and thinking an engineering degree at a good uni isn’t going to be possible for him.
Kids thinking AAB/ABB predicted grades are shit is really sad.. They’ve had an awful year thanks to Covid, this kind of crap on top is pants.

OP only wants her son to go to university though, so no point sharing advice about alternative entry routes.

The other thing OP (and I'm not meaning to beat you up on this), look into what others have said for your coding son. It sounds like he's got a real talent there but a computer science degree may not be the best option for him. A computer science degree isn't a degree in coding. Computer science is learning what computers can do and coding is making them do it. That's why your son is a fantastic coder but won't get the grades for a top computer science degree - it's a different skill set and he might not even enjoy a computer science degree! I looked at computer science for university and realized that whilst I was really interested in using computers and tech, I didn't really care about how it actually worked. I am very strong in maths but my maths wouldn't have been good enough for a top CS degree and I'd have been bored as well as struggling.

OP, I’m not sure what you are saying should happen? Grades were higher so entry requirements are higher otherwise there would be too many applicants.
You can say it is unfair but what would be fair?

Dd1 isn't going to bother applying for next year due to this year's inflated grades shit show. She's taking a year off. She's been predicted AAB so far and it doesn't seem good enough now to even try competing.