Why are engineering degree courses suddenly all wanting AAA

[CatM1nt]

Looking at next years entry and I’m sure some were AAB previously when we looked.

"Southampton wanted 3a's. And a*aa on a couple of engineering courses 3 years ago. It's not unusual, both maths and physics needed to be a as well (dd was doing 4 a levels)."

Is that what they state on their prospectus and give as offers or what they accept on results day? I think Southampton may stick to high grades (although I think they wanted AAB for elect eng in clearing this year) but a lot of universities really don't. Seems very unfortunately for prospective students and parents who don't understand how the game works.

There was an interesting interview with someone from Nottingham physics department a few years ago. He said they increased their offers to AAA as they found that people thought the course couldn't be as good as others when they offered AAB.

@Bryonyshcmyony
It really is. Contextual offers are a recognition that achieving AAB in difficult circumstances is a better indicator of succeeding at university than AAB achieved with every educational advantage and privilege to support you. It isn’t to give charity to weaker state school applications. It’s about making sure that students who would be successful on your course don’t miss out because they had fewer educational privileges than their peers.

Contextual offers are a recognition that achieving AAB in difficult circumstances is a better indicator of succeeding at university than AAB achieved with every educational advantage and privilege to support you.

I believe contexual offers are to widen access and yes I imagine there is an idea that ABB from a not very good comprehensive is equal to AAA from an excellent leafy comp/grammar/private school in that it shows somethign other than pure academic intelligence - they aren't given because they think dcs from leafy comps/grammars/private school are less likely to succeed.

Isn’t that the same thing? Evidence shows clearly that if you have two applicants (one state and one private) with AAB, the one from a state school will typically do better at university than one from a private school. AAB from a state school indicates higher potential to succeed at university than AAB from a private school. It really is that simple, and isn’t about anything other than “pure academic intelligence”. Kids getting AAB at Eton are likely to be a lot less academically intelligent than those getting AAB at a bog standard comprehensive in a disadvantaged area.

@MadameMinimes

Isn’t that the same thing? Evidence shows clearly that if you have two applicants (one state and one private) with AAB, the one from a state school will typically do better at university than one from a private school. AAB from a state school indicates higher potential to succeed at university than AAB from a private school. It really is that simple, and isn’t about anything other than “pure academic intelligence”. Kids getting AAB at Eton are likely to be a lot less academically intelligent than those getting AAB at a bog standard comprehensive in a disadvantaged area.

Evidence may show that, but that's not the reason given for contextual offers.

Not sure why you are so set on this not being the case.

Bristol- “Our contextual offer is a grade reduction of up to two grades below the standard entry requirements and is made to those from backgrounds who, generally, are less likely to come here. Once here, data shows that our contextual offer students achieve above average academically.”

Southampton- “ The University of Southampton is committed to widening participation and ensuring that all students with the potential to succeed, regardless of their background, are encouraged to apply to study with us. The additional information gained through contextual data supports our admissions teams to recognise a student’s achievements and identify their potential to succeed in the context of their background and experience.”

Others are all broadly the same. In short, contextual offers exist because AAA indicates different things depending on the context in which it was achieved. They are looking to get the brightest applicants. Contextualising admissions is a better way of working out who the best applicants are than looking at the grades without the context. AAA is just not as impressive, or as good of an indicator of success at university, if it was achieved at a top private school.

Sheffield wants 3 AAAs now

When I said Sheffield I said Sheffield Hallam, not university of Sheffield. SHU on their website today were saying 80 ucas points.

So yes he may need to set his sights a little lower but as a previous poster said that still means he can become an engineer, still means he can go to uni and get a degree. Can still get a good engineering job at the end of it.

@MadameMinimes

Not sure why you are so set on this not being the case.

Bristol- “Our contextual offer is a grade reduction of up to two grades below the standard entry requirements and is made to those from backgrounds who, generally, are less likely to come here. Once here, data shows that our contextual offer students achieve above average academically.”

Southampton- “ The University of Southampton is committed to widening participation and ensuring that all students with the potential to succeed, regardless of their background, are encouraged to apply to study with us. The additional information gained through contextual data supports our admissions teams to recognise a student’s achievements and identify their potential to succeed in the context of their background and experience.”

Others are all broadly the same. In short, contextual offers exist because AAA indicates different things depending on the context in which it was achieved. They are looking to get the brightest applicants. Contextualising admissions is a better way of working out who the best applicants are than looking at the grades without the context. AAA is just not as impressive, or as good of an indicator of success at university, if it was achieved at a top private school.

"their potential to exceed" doesn't mean "we think they'll do better". It means we think ABB is the equivalent of AAA from St Cutherberts. No judgement made on final outcomes!

I should say St Cutherberts/grammar/leafy comp. As remember not all state schools are eligible for contextual offers

Off the main point of the thread but contextual offers are ridiculous. My friends DS lives in a Manor House in an ex mining village. They have a pool complex, a ballroom!!, stables, acres of land, multiple sports cars on the driveway and he goes to one of the very well known private schools. He has a contextual offer for living in an area with historically low participation in higher education.

Are you told you have a contextual offer?

With all due respect, OP, if his father is an engineer and you're still living on the breadline, doesn't that suggest that your DS would be better off doing something different?

Are you told you have a contextual offer?

Yes. At least my friends ds was.

@Bryonyshcmyony I feel like you’re playing semantics here. I’m not sure why. Potential to succeed of course means those with the ability to do well. They have decided that grades of AAA in a privileged school indicates that potential to succeed, but that ABB in some other schools indicates the same potential to succeed. By implication students with ABB who are not eligible for a contextual offer are deemed to have less potential to succeed than those with ABB who are.

@MadameMinimes How do we know OP’s dc “from a background less likely to come here” or at an underprivileged comp? If anything, OP’s dc comes from a background very likely to attend theses sorts of university. Infact OP’s dc is more privileged than my dc who is at a private school. You seem to assume they will be eligible for a contextual offer when actually many state schools will not fall into this category. They might even be at a grammar!

We don’t. I was just making the point that universities are well aware that some students, particularly those at private schools, are more advantaged. They are working hard to make sure that talented students get places even if they didn’t have the same advantages as private school pupils. I wasn’t intending to get drawn into a debate over the semantics of the driving purpose behind contextual admissions.

OP came on here to say that her son, who is on track to achieve strong A Level grades, is concerned about not getting a university place. OP was particularly concerned about the grade inflation in private schools this year. My point was simply that universities will be accounting for relative advantage/disadvantage and not to worry too much about it and concentrate on the fact that there will be plenty of good universities that will accept him with those grades. His grades will be good enough for engineering at a Russell Group uni without contextual admissions if he gets AAB.

NannyAndJohn

I beg your pardon?

Who on Earth mentioned breadline.🤔

@MadameMinimes I think you should wait and see if the OP's son goes to a school that would be eligible for contextual offers. You are making it sound as though any hardworking dc at a state school will get one.

Just in case you missed it “His grades will be good enough for engineering at a Russell Group uni without contextual admissions if he gets AAB.”

My point was simply that universities will be accounting for relative advantage/disadvantage and not to worry too much about it

They will, if he fulfills contextual offer criteria. You make it sound as though anyone who has had a tough time will get a contextual offer.

OP, would your ds be eligible for a contextual offer?

I think one would as his school is on list. Not engineering one though.

I wasn’t intending to get drawn into a debate over the semantics of the driving purpose behind contextual admissions.

The semantics become very important when you are making wild claims without knowing more about the poster’s dc’s Background.

Well you did Thake saying he’s more privileged than your child at a private school.Not entirely sure how you came to that conclusion.

@FTEngineerM

Probably because it’s a tough subject and kids are getting smarter

Kids are not getting smarter. Grades have been inflated wildly this year.