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AIBU - Service Charge in restaurant

116 replies

Plantfairydoll16888 · 01/05/2023 22:17

I’d love to know your thoughts on this! We spent the bank holiday weekend in London and on Sunday went to The Ned for their Sunday Feast. Essentially it’s a huge buffet with lots of salads / charcuterie / roast dinner and all the trimmings and desserts. 1 glass of Prosecco included in the price - £90 per person!

Our initial server seated us and offered the glass of champagne. She was extremely blunt in describing how the feast worked and wasn’t friendly at all.
She came over twice throughout our meal and asked if we would like more drinks - we’d already gotten one from the bar before being seated, had a glass of Prosecco each and we also requested tap water for the table so this wasn’t needed.

Another server however had taken our plates several times throughout our meal. Replaced cutlery, always topped up water and checked on other drinks and was generally a really lovely man. He was polite and gracious and had lovely little exchanges with us throughout. When loading up at the buffet he even approached and offered to ladle on the gravy to avoid me being splashed. He also returned and topped up our Prosecco flutes for a second time whilst eating dessert, giving us a cheeky wink! There was no food service involved due to it being a buffet!

Anyway, I’m very ANTI service charge. I understand it’s becoming common practice however I do not like the concept that management decide on an additional charge at THEIR discretion. I always ask that it is removed when requesting the bill. We always have cash to leave a cash tip of our choice. Our meal cost almost £300 and included an almost £30 tip.
Some would say, if you’re paying so much for a meal then £30 isn’t much however it’s more about principle. Besides, I’ve paid enough!

With 10 minutes left on our reservation, the waitress approached with the bill, placed it on the table and walked away. I then had to get her attention and request that the service charge was removed. She didn’t say anything and returned and immediately asked “what was wrong with my service?”. I explained that our asking to remove the charge was not a reflection on the service, I simply prefer to make my own decision when it comes to tipping. She then repeated herself and asked “so you’re not leaving tip you have a problem with my service?”. I was so frustrated. This is a high end establishment - how are the staff behaving in such a way?! I then continued to explain that in fact, the other gentleman actually provided far more service to us and we would be leaving a tip that we were comfortable with. My partner paid the bill and she simply walked off.

My face must have been a picture! As the other server approached immediately and asked if everything was ok. I began to explain we asked for the service charge to be removed and he quickly interjected “yes of course of course I’ll sort that now no problem”. We then clarified everything and he was so understanding and apologetic.

My partner shook his hand and thanked him for his service - we both did - he was great, slipping a £20 in his hand (who even does that anymore lol!).

I understand that tips are usually split across the restaurant and shared with non-customer facing staff who don’t have the opportunity to earn tips however I was so shocked at how badly this server handled the situation, especially given she hardly did anything! This is the UK. All staff will earn at least minimum wage - I know that isn’t a lot but it’s the same as a lot of other people who cannot rely on tipping. The service charge should be an added bonus for exceptional service and not something that is expected, or am I being really stingy here? I much prefer leaving a cash tip that I believe reflects the service.

OP posts:
Plantfairydoll16888 · 02/05/2023 19:31

Lolasgame · 02/05/2023 02:02

This

Crazy how people make so many assumptions without knowing a person isn’t it. The £20 tip was a result of us being a little taken a back by how the waitress had dealt with the ‘situation’. Not that it ever should have been a ‘situation’. She provided the bill without it being requested whereby I would usually ask that the service charge is removed as id prefer to leave a cash tip.
I didn’t know my partner was going to do the slip of the £20 thing - I’ve never witnessed it before and quite honestly cringed but found it hilarious and is something I’ll roast him for, for months to come.

I’ll continue to eat out and provide a cash tip where I believe it is deserved. Im not responsible for topping up the wages of restaurant staff, the same way I’m not responsible for topping up the wages of supermarket staff.

We work really hard and are not on high salaries ourselves. I will not be made to feel ‘guilty’ for choosing how much to tip staff - above what I have PAID the business to provide me with.
Why would I need mumsnet to ‘know’ how rich I am? As mentioned, we don’t have high salaries. We work really hard and long hours to treat ourselves to nice things and experiences.

A DISCRETIONARY service charge is exactly that. DISCRETIONARY. I will continue to leave a cash tip at my own discretion moving forward.

OP posts:
EatTheDamnCake · 02/05/2023 19:32

I used to work in this industry and don't think there's an issue with not paying the service charge. The first waiter was rude anyway, so why pay a tip. She's a nutcase getting arsey about it. Only in London...oh and Paris. I've lived in both so I'm allowed to say that!

However, the cheeky little wink and slipping him a note makes me want to cringe myself inside out. But that's by the by

Modda · 02/05/2023 19:51

£20 tip on £300 isn't enough. I hate it when people cheap out on the tip.

nofusspot · 02/05/2023 19:52

Modda · 02/05/2023 19:51

£20 tip on £300 isn't enough. I hate it when people cheap out on the tip.

Yeah and feel smug about it coz they are tipping in the first place

Livinginanotherworld · 02/05/2023 20:09

Megifer · 02/05/2023 12:54

I don't know anyone that pays the service charge! and for £300 I'd probably tip a tenner if the service was as expected, maybe £15 if it was great. Always in cash too so it hopefully goes direct.

I have a friend that never tips, ever.

I’m embarrassed for you !

lemonaddde · 02/05/2023 20:09

I don't agree with service charges being adddd as standard.

Customers are not there to pay the staff directly, staff are employed by the establishment you are eating at. It is not bending the rules to not want to pay a chunk of money ontop of your bill because they have just added it.

Tips should be discretionary. Cash left on the table or the card readers they ask whether you want to add a tip.

The restaurant just whacking a tip on is very presumptuous.

lemonaddde · 02/05/2023 20:11

Modda · 02/05/2023 19:51

£20 tip on £300 isn't enough. I hate it when people cheap out on the tip.

It's upto you what you want to tip.

Not everyone can afford to or wants to.

Just because someone has got the money to eat out doesn't mean they have the money to pay extra for a service that is already included in the eating out experience. Waiting staff are paid a wage.

Some people might scrimp and save to afford one meal out.

lemonaddde · 02/05/2023 20:15

Viviennemary · 02/05/2023 12:40

The point is if you don't like the idea of a service charge then eat somewhere else. I don't like service charges either. But you were wrong to withhold it. You sound very difficult tp please. There was nothing wrong with the sevice you got. YABU.

Unless the service charge is mandatory and this is made clear before ordering, nobody should feel pressured into paying it.

Many places whack this charge on the bill without warning in the hope it will just get paid.

Screwedupworld · 02/05/2023 20:20

Service charge on a bill in most places I have worked has been split between the kitchen chefs/porters and wait staff. I don’t agree with cash tips because of this as it’s usually pocketed by one server.

AbraKedavra · 02/05/2023 20:30

I never tip a percentage. Even in the US where tipping is almost mandatory, I just tip a fiver. IME $5 for coming over a few times and bringing my food is more than enough. In any case, why should the waiter get more or less based on whether I choose the cheapest or priciest menu options?

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 02/05/2023 20:33

Screwedupworld · 02/05/2023 20:20

Service charge on a bill in most places I have worked has been split between the kitchen chefs/porters and wait staff. I don’t agree with cash tips because of this as it’s usually pocketed by one server.

Or used to cover the cost if someone walks out without paying their bill.

Plantfairydoll16888 · 02/05/2023 20:40

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 02/05/2023 20:33

Or used to cover the cost if someone walks out without paying their bill.

I’ve also seen that a lot of restaurants under pay their staff, using the money from service charges etc to top up wages to bring pay in line with legal requirements. Regardless of this. In most places I do actually leave a cash tip! I just don’t think it should be labelled as discretionary and treated as mandatory

OP posts:
momtoboys · 02/05/2023 20:51

Oh dear, looks like someone didn't get the response they were expecting.

rookiemere · 02/05/2023 21:15

AbraKedavra · 02/05/2023 20:30

I never tip a percentage. Even in the US where tipping is almost mandatory, I just tip a fiver. IME $5 for coming over a few times and bringing my food is more than enough. In any case, why should the waiter get more or less based on whether I choose the cheapest or priciest menu options?

Fine in the UK where the tip is an arbitrary amount and they are getting at least minimum wage anyway, unfair in the USA where they are taxed on the basis that they will be making 15-20% tip from every customer. Your restaurant visit could in fact cost them money, even with your oh so generous $5.
I don't agree with the custom, but that's how it works.

L0bstersLass · 02/05/2023 21:25

Plantfairydoll16888 · 02/05/2023 20:40

I’ve also seen that a lot of restaurants under pay their staff, using the money from service charges etc to top up wages to bring pay in line with legal requirements. Regardless of this. In most places I do actually leave a cash tip! I just don’t think it should be labelled as discretionary and treated as mandatory

Your knowledge is way out of date.
As is your belief that leaving a cash tip vs paying the service charge makes any difference to how the money is routed.

Here's the latest from the Government - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e24-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs/guidance-on-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs

AbraKedavra · 02/05/2023 21:34

rookiemere · 02/05/2023 21:15

Fine in the UK where the tip is an arbitrary amount and they are getting at least minimum wage anyway, unfair in the USA where they are taxed on the basis that they will be making 15-20% tip from every customer. Your restaurant visit could in fact cost them money, even with your oh so generous $5.
I don't agree with the custom, but that's how it works.

Let them fight it out with the IRS. I won't be held hostage because of false assumptions on behalf of the taxman.

Plantfairydoll16888 · 02/05/2023 21:42

Not the case at all. I started the thread for discussion and to hear different opinions. I’m simply clarifying my statement in response to others :)

OP posts:
Plantfairydoll16888 · 02/05/2023 21:46

L0bstersLass · 02/05/2023 21:25

Your knowledge is way out of date.
As is your belief that leaving a cash tip vs paying the service charge makes any difference to how the money is routed.

Here's the latest from the Government - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e24-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs/guidance-on-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs

Perhaps it is. However articles from a few years ago showed me the place in question being called out for not distributing service charge amongst staff, instead being pocketed by management. Regardless of any of this, I’ve never stated it changes how the money is distributed. What it does change is the amount. Once I have paid for my meal and drinks, all of which is inclusive of a service charge, allowing the establishment to pay their staff and retain a healthy profit, I will choose how much, if anything, I choose to pay on top of that. It is of course as described, discretionary. So I choose to use my discretion. Apparently that’s wrong!

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:23

@AbraKedavra why are you proud of being mean? Truly baffling.

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:39

According to the business publication Forbrs, net profit margin at successful fine dining American restaurants is 5 to 8%. In the UK it probably is lower, given the food and labour shortages we are experiencing.

So, OP, I am not sure why you are confident that your payment plan will ‘allow the establishment to pay their staff and retain a healthy profit.’ Then again, The Ned is not my idea of fine dining.

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:39

Forbes Magazine.

AbraKedavra · 03/05/2023 01:46

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:23

@AbraKedavra why are you proud of being mean? Truly baffling.

I'm not mean and a $5 tip for a few minutes of service is well paid indeed. It's an hourly rate of around $50.

The industry depends on schmucks shaming others into giving more. Well guess what, I don't shame that easily.

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:54

And it is a well earned $50. As a Russell Group STEM academic who waited tables as an undergraduate I can tell you unequivocally which job is harder. Maybe the semester I finished my PhD was comparable, otherwise wait staff have it much worse.

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:57

Also, @AbraKedavra the labour you see wait staff give to you and your food is by no means the whole story. You might at least consider doubling the time and therefore the tip as a more realistic estimate of their work

AbraKedavra · 03/05/2023 02:02

poetryandwine · 03/05/2023 01:57

Also, @AbraKedavra the labour you see wait staff give to you and your food is by no means the whole story. You might at least consider doubling the time and therefore the tip as a more realistic estimate of their work

They get paid by the the employer. What I'm concerned about is how much is appropriate for me to tip. Meaning a gratuity, something extra on top.

Wages are set by supply and demand. As waiting is unskilled, which is to say no specialised training is needed, even $30 per hour is a very decent wage.

The way I see it, even if the waiters are dependant on tips, if every diner tips a fiver, that comes out to a very nice salary. On a busy night of course, but that's not up to me. As far as I'm concerned, my obligation is discharged above and beyond.

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