well do you reckon that alcohol should be reclassified as a dangerous drug..more dangerous than lsd or ecstacy

[zippitippitoes]

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I am surprised about the view of LSD actually but maybe it relates to the criteria as it is unlikely to cause dependence but then imo you don't need to take it many times to have detrimental effects

also surprised that alcohol is worse than tobacco

and that cannabis is still not so bad as I thought strong evidence linking it with schizophrenia was gaining ground

here

it does put alcohol as more dangerous than tobacco which is interesting

Oh in terms of cost in medical terms definitely alcohol is worse - other drugs kill you quicker without taking you to casualty 58 times so you can serenade the doctors with a rousing chorus of 'I wweeeeally love you'

But I thought that there were known safe levels of alcohol consumption, unlike tobacco and other drugs?

Well alcohol is a poison - is there any real safe level?

I think on an individual level, no, alcohol is not more dangerous than LSD or ecstasy, but taking the thing about "harm to society and to families" etc into account, yes, absolutely

I don't think ecstasy causes much crime, violence or unpleasant behaviour at all, compared to alcohol. I think the only risk of taking it is to one's own health, because of the effects on your body's serotonin and dopamine production. I fear for the long term effects for regular users

Similar with LSD, this drug doesn't cause crime or anti-social behaviour, it just carries a high risk for your own mental health IMO

This is an interesting piece Zippi, thanks for the link

yeah.

driving a car after smoking a cigarette doesn't impair your ability to drive.

cannabis is linked to schizophrenia when abused and also because dealers are cutting it with all types of shit. on its own, grown in a field from seed and smoked as weed - not hash mixed with baccy, it's WAY less harmful than alchol, IME.

no. beer is good.

yes the criteria were intersting

I'm wondering how they measure

the risk of a single encounter must be greater with lsd or ecstasy than with alcohol

the quantity makes a difference too

they all come in different strengths

but if you took lsd three times a week then I'm sure it would be worse than alcohol

you wouldn't be able to function at all

but surely one lsd trip permanently alters your brain synapses

But expat - smoking itself has other effects on society. Drink driving is comitted by a certain group of irresponsible drivers, which can then lead to accidents, etc. Passive smoking is caused by all thoise who smoke around others, not just the few irresponsible ones.

and it deosn't account for community harm in crime (seeing hula has reminded me!)

drug related crime accounts for a high proportion of overall crime

so there are more restrictions now on tobacco than alcohol and yet it is less harmful according to this study

Alcohol is clearly more dangerous than tobacco.

Seem to have got ourselves into a moral panic about smoking because some people don't like the smell (sniff) rather than because of anything remotely resembling evidence.

How many people have been assaulted by crazed smokers who have over-indulged?

Oh for God's sake. You're delusional if you think your fags aren't going to kill you, or that people who complain about passive smoking are moaning about 'the smell'

Oh, and smokers don't overindulge.

But, like any addict, when a smoker is unable to obtain nicotine, his/her behavior will not be normal. They may be pushed into scrounging, stealing, rifling through the bin looking for dogends, etc

Normal behavior?

I don't smoke!

If you don't smoke then what makes you think smokers behave normally all the time?

I didn't say smokers behaved normally.

I just said they don't assault people.

Smokers can and do assault people when they've had to do without.

Actually, I think lighting a cigarette right next to my children is assault. they are both asthmatic, either or both are triggered by cigarette smoke.

So as a direct result of someones actions, my children become ill.

So, it is assault.

They don't assault people by being under the influence of nicotine, they assault people every time they light the disgusting things in the first place.

Driving a car is assault, wearing a noxious perfume is assault, growing flowers is assault, etc.

I think all you're really saying is that you like drinking, but not smoking.

This is really interesting.

I have a lot of experience with drink and drugs (i like to party..!) and i can say that i would probably agree that alcohol is one of the worst. I have never heard or seen anyone become ill from LSD, and its nice that they have listed ecstascy so far down the list, as it really doesn't cause harm to the taker or anyone around! BUT one pill can kill, whereas a shot of vodka isnt going to do anyone any harm.

strange list really.

Its also easier to OD on most drugs rather than alcohol, mainly because alcohol's effects are progressive. Obviously it does happen a lot, but it is just harder IYKWIM.

Does anyone know the actual order? What were the top 5?

This BBC link has the rankings.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6474053.stm

lsd IS a damaging drug and just one session can alter your perception on life, for the ill, for good.