Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

Ok but that’s the issue. You say you were assaulted by having your legs forced apart and the notes don’t record that. Again not judging who is right or wrong but it’s going to mean it’s very unlikely that an investigation would result in criminal charges. Having now read that the only thing you said was stop pulling my legs and your partner didn’t intervene at all it really doesn’t feel that it would be a good use of your time and energy to continue to pursue this.

Well in this scenario the woman and her husband had it their way and ended up with a brain damaged baby.... so there is that.

No risk justifies any intervention without consent.

If a woman is refusing a particular intervention the clinical team should explain why they think it's necessary, and if the patient still refuses, document the lack of consent and move on. Continuing without consent is assault.

I am shocked and sorry you went through this OP. I thought things had changed for the better since I had my first baby in the 80s. I was shaved, given an enema, wired for continuous CTG, multiple medical students entered the room as I was pushing, and I was given an episiotomy, all without any explanation or request for consent. I continually asked the midwives to remove the CTG but they refused. This was for a completely normal delivery. It still makes me angry when I remember it.

Same, I had a strop with my birth plan because I was high risk so couldn’t have what I wanted (water birth) so I practically shrugged and said “I’ll wing it then”. 😂😂😂

In fairness, it went ok.

That’s like accusing someone of making up a rape charge because they regretted it the next day.

I wrote something to that effect as the final sentence of my birth plan! Just as well as no sane women's birthplan would involve an episiotomy, failed ventouse and successful forceps 😆

OP are you saying that they could not find your baby's heartbeat? That's an emergency and they will have wanted another clear reading and to get your baby out quickly. That's why they were insisting, I think, not to upset you. They may have explained but women are often not quite rational or listening when in labour. The hospital has maybe said that this was the case but you don't seem to realise that not hearing the baby's heart beat (lost contact, you call it) is an emergency.

Speak for yourself. Just because you, apparently, went temporarily insane during labour, it doesn't mean all (or even many) women do. I think perhaps you're an outlier.

It isn’t a good use of your time to pursue this is probably something victims of sexual crimes have been told by police often.

Doesn't make it not a crime or not worth pursuing.

@IdaGlossop Quite. My first birth plan didn't anticipate that DD would be enormous and get stuck. 😂

Not really. It's not understanding what was going on while you were in labour and being asked to push.
Not that I disagree with the comment about rape you make - outrageous idea.

How in the name of everything is that comparison even nearly the same?!?

What on earth…

The thing is you don’t have to be able to justify someone else’s actions or why they did it to be observed that they happened. If someone ploughs into a crowd, they don’t need to have a rationale you can understand or explain to other people for a crime to have been committed.

This is also the case with any other crime, including sexual assault. A prosecution lawyer in court might need to try to find a rationales to justify. A victim or witness does not.

Do you really think women need a third party to hold their legs open for a baby to come out when its ready?

“Are you just angry and traumatised and looking for a reason other than "that didn't go well, did it?"“

Holding a lady's legs in the correct position, when her baby is coming out and has had meconium stained liqor, when she is trying to keep her legs shut is standard midwifery, surely?

PALS, a complaint - I don't actually remember a lot from my second labour, except the midwife saying that they were struggling to get a good reading with me on the ball, and that if they couldn't then they'd have to make me get back up on the bed.

I remember seeing red and giving a little speech about how they couldn't 'make' me do anything, and I was staying on the bloody ball as that was the only place that was even vaguely tolerable. I do remember a second midwife coming in and actually talking to me like a human being at that point and explaining how to put my hand on the sensor thing on the band so they could get a decent read. I remember her because later on, when I had gone back on the bed (because I wanted to) she showed me how to get up again by pulling me feet towards myself and her just lightly leaning on them so I had enough grip to roll my enormous body forward.

So no. You are not wrong, and they shouldn't have done it and you have every right to complain for as long as you have the strength to. They can do better, but like in every job, some people are lazy or don't listen.

Everything except for being assaulted went perfectly well, thanks.

I was pushing my baby out without any assistance from anyone other than DH. she came and sat between my legs with her tools. Said "I'm going to an episiotomy." I said "no" she said "yes". Cut me , pulled my baby out of me. Turned to her student and said "great, now you've seen a ventous delivery" went to cut the cord, I said "no we're waiting to white" she said "we've waited long enough" cut the cord. Gave me the injection to deliver the placenta, delivered that and left.

Most important part of that? I SAID NO.

Let me explain. The point of similarity is the insinuation that someone is accusing someone else of a sexual crime post hoc not because a crime has been committed but because they don’t think the situation went well and so are making things up to blame someone else for their decisions and no crime was committed.

I am so sorry that was done to you. There is no excuse xx

You don't get to touch someone without their consent no matter your perceived justification, also very little evidence that ctg actually improve outcomes

Also I think a lot of people don’t reallly understand what a good ‘birth plan’ is.

It isn’t a ‘set plan’ of a perfect birth and how everything is going to go a certain way. It’s understanding the process of labour and birth, what happens, risks and benefits, what options are available in different scenarios.

A good birth plan will consider different options and what you are willing or not willing to consent to. Even different hospitals have different ways they mange things so it’s important to give informed consent imo.

I went into my first labour with a ‘birth plans are pointless I’ll just do as im told’ mindset and ended up having a really traumatic time and a birth injury,
My second birth I actually researched, made a birth plan, had my birth partner as an advocate for that plan and had a much, much better time.. and as a result of that a much better postnatal experience, better mental health… which in turn meant a better start and early years for my baby, being a better mother for my first child in this period as well- the birth experience really can have such a knock-on and lasting effect beyond the woman so it’s really important!

This sounds very distressing, OP, and way beyond what labour in hospital should involve.

I do wonder whether your time is well spent pursuing this with the police, however, because it will be you against the might of the NHS, you with no proof eg photos showing irregular bruising and the multiple staff concerned with professional qualifications and the argument that they were acting for the good of your baby. Your argument isn't helped by your husband being present throughout the 20 minutes you describe and not intervening to advocate for you. Other questions arise from your posts, in particular why you didn't explain you were in pain if flat on your back and suggest you try a different position. Given all this, it's hard to see how the police will be able to justify investing time in this.

A pregnant women still (thankfully) has an absolute right to refuse any medical treatment, even if it is because she is prioritising her own comfort over her baby's wellbeing You don't lose autonomy over your own body just because you are pregnant.

The midwives should not have touched her without her consent, and certainly shouldn't have tried to open her legs for twenty minutes while she was telling them to stop.