Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

I agreed to the monitoring, just not the position.

@NibliaBiblia How were they supposed to do the CTG accurately then?

I suppose I don't understand your reasoning, because in that situation, I'd do whatever was medically best for my baby's health, I wouldn't care what position I was in if it helped the midwives to get the most accurate reading.

I had an induction because it was best for my baby and myself. It was very painful, but his health was my priority.

If you were passing meconium they would want baby born safely and quickly, i cant see why youd need uour legs open for simple ctg monitoringn but would need to be for them to monitor any discharge or imminent biirth, did they initially ask you to lie on your back and open your legs so they could examine you but you kept refusing so they held your legs to examine you and birthing. Forcing your legs ooen for 20 mins doesnt make sense,

Actually it lines up remarkably well. They don't say they were forcing my legs open, of course.

They do, but a lot of women lose their minds temporarily during the agony of delivering a baby, and a midwifes job is to tell her to push, to do things to get the baby out safely. I was panicking during my first labour and refusing to push, so the midwife was stern with me and told me to push. I was cross and upset but now I'm in my right mind do I realise she was right? Of course!

Part of the issue is women thinking (and being told) they can control everything, and everything should go the way they want it. Birth is agony, unpredictable and dangerous. What is more of a tragedy, someone holding your lgs up when you don't want them to so your pelvis opens and baby comes out, or someone listening to you saying now and baby dies (and has to come out anyway!) Ethics includes proportionaility and the circumstances of the time

Yeh 41 weeks with meconium is high risk so they wanted baby out quickly. Sounds like they didn't explain this though and didn't listen to you saying no.

How is your baby now?

I can't believe I am reading this. There are 3 people involved in childbirth. The mother who is labouring, the father who presumably wants this child, and the child who has a right to live and be uninjured by birth.
You think it's okay to let a woman refuse monitoring or a caesarean or any other help except a natural birth. A natural birth can kill - this is why we monitor mother and baby, why we have interventions before the mother is exhausted or the baby is damaged. All this needs explaining to women, of course, and they should be listened to, of course, and if they say something is wrong that should be acted upon - but saying my autonomy is more important than my life and my baby's life is both irresponsible and insane.

Why did you say no? It’s a normal thing to have done during childbirth.

But monitoring doesn’t magically make the baby safer. Yes their intention was good but my god there is surely a better way of achieving that end than physically forcing legs apart.

So you were clamping your legs shut and not responding to them, when your baby needed monitoring, when you were too tired to speak and now you’re surprised that they tried to physically move you to make things safer?

I get it, labour and childbirth isn’t sunshine and rainbows at all, you’re scared, it hurts, you don’t always knows what’s going on. You needed your DH to advocate for you tbh, I’d be really upset with him if he “was in shock and just froze”. But I don’t think they purposely assaulted you to be mean. I also find some of your comments contradictory, if they were shouting at you to push and examining you and you weren’t speaking to them I’ve got to say that sounds like a bit of an emergency pending even if it wasn’t to your mind at the time.

Are you just angry and traumatised and looking for a reason other than “that didn’t go well, did it?”

@NibliaBiblia please ignore the trolls on here and thankyou for raising awareness both on here and with the hospital trust. There is no, none, zero (for those at the back who are hard of hearing that’s NIL) medical reason/s for forcing you onto your back during a “normal” vaginal birth. It is purely for the benefit of the medical team and CQC need to investigate. You were assaulted and made to feel unsafe at your most vulnerable. Don’t let it go unchallenged but do try and find peace whilst waiting for an outcome.

My first birth was traumatic and ignored the only 2 words on my birth plan “no forceps”. I was better prepared for my 2nd and if my DH had not been willing to be a proper advocate I would have subbed in my mum. My labour was continuous for DD2 with no break between contractions (thankfully only for 3 hours). I refused all internal examinations and refused to lie on my back - no is a full sentence. The consultant got quite cross and then a bit surprised when I got cross back after which she wound her neck in. I understand that they are busy and stressed but if they can’t provide an appropriate bedside manner then they should have trained as engineers rather than doctors.

You were having a baby FGS not having some beauty treatments. You think you know all the answers but it was the nurses place to make sure that your baby was ok and you think you know best, you have all the answers. Don’t waste your time going down the legal route.
The nurses were simply doing their job. Grow up, you sound very precious. It’s not surprising that midwives are leaving the NHS.

I gave birth kneeling, without my legs spread at all – around a shoulder width apart. It's so much easier with gravity assisting, I'm sure.

It sounds very badly handled, whatever was happening, and I have to think that if it was because you were about to begin pushing, your midwife could've told you, and you'd have got into the right position for you.
She could've asked your husband to help calm you if you were panicky, and she could've done the CTG on your side.

Sadly I think its unlikely you'll get official acknowledgement of your experience, but I hope that you can move past this, OP, heal, and leave it in the past. It's so frustrating, however, that women in labour are universally treated as dumb animals who can't consent. At no point in my labour was I ever not fully aware of what was going on. In pain, yes, but not an imbecile!

After. Mr labour and birth with my second was the best day of my life. It was almost exactly like with my first, except that instead of being assaulted they just monitored me where I was.

In circumstances where you seek medical assistance to ensure the safe delivery of a baby inside you, and the hospital/clinic agrees to do that, "your body your choice" isn't as clear cut. This is the case not just in delivery, but throughout pregnancy. There are, at times, two opposing interests. Normally there's time to think about and discuss things, so whatever happens is consensual. In delivery, in the last 20 minutes of delivery, that can happen ten times on the turn of a dime and there's no time to discuss - there's certainly no time to get comfortable.

On the one hand, there is no doubt that there are serious issues across our maternity services. The sooner these are addresses the better - but I'm guessing nothing will be an overnight fix.

But it's important to remember that not every midwife is evil. Many are doing their absolute best to ensure safe outcomes for mum AND baby. We shouldn't assume our care will be awful - but having a strong advocate in with us is so important. Sounds as though your partner either was not seeing an issue at the time, or didn't know how speak up for you.

My biggest gripe though are birth plans. As new mums, we are encouraged to plan thoroughly how we would like our births to go. This is pure optimism at best. A) we have no idea how our births are going to go and B) we are not the medically trained experienced professional able to look at what is happening and judge the best course of action. We are encouraged to plan a fairy-tale birth - and then reality hits. And suddenly it's all the midwives fault.

So back to the OP, I wasn't in the room, neither was anyone else on this thread, so we can't tell you if what happened was assault or not. But just because things didn't follow your plan, doesn't make the midwives actions assault.

Doesn't mean it wasn't either.

Perfect. She was perfectly healthy, still is.

The baby isn't considered a legal entity with rights until it's born. So mum's legally can refuse care that would save their baby. Morally it feels horrible but that's the UK law

(social services can look at risky behaviour in pregnancy but that's a bit different).

Why is it only women giving birth who "loose their minds"? Do you think it's possible a midwife at the end of a 12hr night shift, with kids, husband, house to manage and other personal stresses might occasionally "loose their minds" and assault a patient to get a box tick procedure done quickly and easily?

There is a lot of interesting research about misogyny in medicine. A man and a woman reporting the same exact symptoms, both experiencing a heart attack are treated very differently.

I really don't understand why you would refuse so long to open your legs so they can monitor the baby?? Surely you wanted to know the baby was ok? What would you be thinking now if your baby had been showing heart issues and you missed the crucial time when your baby needed help? When I was in labour they found that every time I contracted my babies heart rate was plummeting and they knew they needed to get the baby out ASAP if I had refused to cooperate for 30 minutes it may have been too late.

I agree they shouldn't force you to do anything but why didn't you just comply. Surely the midwives just wanted the best outcome for you both?

Multiple people using physical force to attempt to pry my legs open for twenty minutes is assault.

So glad to read this ❤️❤️❤️❤️ I hope you can find a way to heal mentally from the experience

Sorry, but if my son hadnt been monitored he would have died. I didnt want it everything was hurting and I was in pain but why would the medical staff do something that they knew you didnt agree to if not for the best of medical reasons? Are you medically trained.

They must have been very worried about the baby! I really don't understand why you wouldn't let them help you.

@PullingOutHair123 I agree with you about birth plans, I feel as if they're fantasies that seldom come true.

If your baby had been brain damaged would you be holding the staff responsible for not doing the tests?.