Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

Did they leave any red marks or bruises on your legs from this? Id assume after 20 minutes of someone pulling your legs apart you would have some damage to your skin? Did you get any photos of this to use as evidence?

I'm speechless at the idea that you want the police to investigate some poor midwife who was trying to check whether your baby was ok as it was overdue and passed meconium. Do you think she should go to prison? Lose her job? Will that make you feel better?
No wonder midwives are leaving in droves.

I think you have been overthinking this and it's grown in your mind to something it wasn't. You should move on and enjoy your baby.

Well said. I was totally shocked at this post and more so than the amount who seem to agree. Do everyone a favour next time and manage your own pregnancy at home alone. Clearly you will do a better job and not have to report anyone to the police! I have heard it all now! Get a bloody grip.

Without minimising the situation, it also sounds like you were obstructive and did not consider the baby or the actions of the medical staff.

Instead of resisting and not speaking. Why on earth did you not simply ask;

Please can you explain the need as I am comfortable as I am?

No healthcare professional does something in this day and age for fun. They're doing it because its vital for life.

I suspect you'd also be complaining had/should harm come to the baby. I am not demeaning what you feel happened but you also need to strongly consider your actions here.

If you needed an interpreter or have additional needs so that you could not understand or verbalise for yourself you should have highlighted this sooner.

I was pointing out where this persons comment had similarities with someone accusing a victim of sexual assault of making things up the next day simply because they regretted it, which is an accusation that has been levelled at sexual assault victims for a long time as a way to dismiss and minimise the accusation.

Yes - but if the mother refuses care that is medically advised (which she is legally entitled to do) and the baby suffers life changing birth defects possibly requiring life-long care, will the clinicians be on the hook for medical negligence?

I’m so sorry this happened to you.
When I was in labour with DC1, the consultant decided to break my waters.

I knew he was going to do it and agreed to it.

It was like someone trying to unblock a drain 🤬 He basically just shoved his hand right up me.
My DH agreed that he was unnecessarily rough.

DC1 is 19 now and I STILL struggle with sex.
I enjoy sex with my DH and can feel absolutely in the mood and have had an orgasm before penetration but I STILL seize up at that precise moment.

It HURTS.
And it doesn’t matter how relaxed I feel or if I’ve had a few drinks beforehand.

Do you think you're projecting your anger and fear onto the midwives rather than your partner? Knowing that he stood and watched you be assaulted (in his opinion) for 20 minutes and did nothing must be terrifying, and probably not something you can easily forget - which is exactly as you describe the experience, but placing all the blame with the midwives.

Hold on - a non medical person is risking their own lives and a babies life. Why on earth would a medical person who has never met you want to do something that wouldnt help the delivery?

Why do you thinbk you know better? I am sorry to be harsh but this thread is making me uncomfortable. What if someone was about to jump off a bridge and you could save them by grabbing them. Would you just leave them and say well their choice is there choice?

Yes. If all the OP said was "stop pulling my legs" once and apparently her husband did and said nothing during the 20 minutes this was ongoing (although he now apparently agrees with her that she was being assaulted throughout but didn't do anything at the time) I doubt the police will investigate very far, especially if the alleged assault consisted of "When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up."

Yes this.

Technically, in the eyes of the law, when you find out you are pregnant there is one thing you must legally do- ensure you register the baby’s birth before they are six weeks old. That’s it. All NHS care- community midwife appointments, blood tests, scans, going to hospital to give birth etc is just available care you can choose to utilise or not, and choose which aspects of it to utilise or not. Pregnant women have the same rights as anyone else, and babies aren’t seen as separate individuals until after they are born. I can see how that doesn’t sit right with a lot of people, but it is the law.

If I’d have been left to be in charge of my own Labour I would have given birth to a dead baby the first time, and died myself the second.
The first time, I kind of lost my mind - I was trying to climb off the bed, tried to grab some scissors to cut the baby out, begged my husband to put the pillow over my face so I could be put out of my misery. This was thought to be linked to the pethidine I was given (with my full consent) which I reacted very badly to. My baby was facing the wrong way and making no progress. It was only when I eventually had an episiotomy (that I wasn’t able to consent to) that she was delivered on the very next contraction.
With my second baby, I wanted a home birth but was advised against it. I was very tempted to just stay at home until it was too late to go to hospital, but fortunately for me my DH persuaded me not to. In the end the delivery was so wonderful and pain free. I wanted to leave the hospital as soon as I had been checked over but as it was the middle of the night I did agree to stay until the morning. I ended up with a massive PPH that needed life saving surgery, several blood transfusions and a 7 day hospital stay, 2 in intensive care.

Sometimes, mothers in labour do NOT know what’s best for themselves or their baby.

No, but they absolutely should have documented that OP was refusing to allow them to monitor the baby for those 20minutes.

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want your baby monitered. My son would have died if he hadn’t been monitored. I had a massive hemorage because I was anemic. His heartbeat started dramatically dipping then going really high and dipping again. I had to be cut and get him out with foreceps. I didn’t care what they did to me I just wanted my baby out alive and crying.

Not least because she was being monitored, they were just having trouble with a continuous contact, and there are ways to sort that without assaulting or bullying a woman.

My hard line was I wasn't having the clip placed on the babies head. If they were so worried that they needed that, we were going to EMCS (I'd already had EMCS for my previous birth - and TBH, I'd lost faith that they weren't just running a standard playbook rather than actually being engaged in my personal situation, and didn't trust them to keep my baby alive).

I just remembered a second bit from the good midwife. Just as she'd shown me how to hold the monitor still so they could get a good read, a massive wail came up from another room and she looked up in what seemed like a lot of worry. I told her I had this under control and to go, and she did with a touch and a thankyou. The first (bullying) midwife just kept her mouth shut and read the trace.

"I'd been told over and over again in antenatal appointments that it's generally helpful to move into whatever position feels right to you."

That's only if there's no problems or complications. If there are any suspected problems, you need to let the medical professionals do what they have to do. It's in everyone's best interest.

I get that but legally HCPs can’t make decisions for people who seem temporarily and acutely unable to make decisions in their best interest. If there’s a longer term lack of capacity that’s easier as they can be properly assessed.

because while you were grateful that you had an epis without consent someone else would have sued 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is such an awful thing to say. So a pregnant women can refuse to have anyone touch her even if the baby is at risk?

If they actually think someone has lost capacity they can do a brief version of a mental capacity assessment i believe, similar to if someone is intoxicated. I'm sorry you had this happen to you but there was no doubt about my capacity at any time. It's not the same.

Legally yes

I suspect the fact midwives are leaving in droves is to do with the stress of working in chronically underfunded and understaffed environments.

Midwives will be taught about patient consent, and that it is necessary for any examination or intervention. A midwife who attempts to force a woman's legs apart without her consent is committing a criminal offence. That is why the OP was perfectly entitled to make a complaint to the police.

The OP has already said. To do a CTG, other PP have stated that a woman doesn't need to be on her back for this to be done. The OP has already said that she was lying on her side.

This i spart of the issue women have with medical care in England - everyone assumes the doctor/nurse is right and knows their job. This is not always the case and of course human error happens

Yes

I’m not trying to make excuses here, but could they have been worried for your baby’s life? When I was rushed in for forceps, they were quite heavy handed but they were properly panicking as my baby’s heartbeat had slowed so much she was moments from passing away so being gentle wasn’t on their agenda; Every very split second mattered.

You don’t need to and it’s not legal for them to proceed with a procedure you have not consented to.