Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

I’m assuming that yours and birth partners recollection of what happened doesn’t align with the medical staff’s or your notes? Not making any kind of judgement but it’s going to be more difficult to have a complaint upheld if the evidence is contradictory. I think if I was you I’d assess whether taking it much further is in your own best interests.

My personal experience is that I wasn’t always treated kindly whilst in labour and it did feel undignified but there were points when I was panicking and not listening (during the transition and pushing stage) and I can see that I needed to be told directly and loudly what to do and what not to do and it was clearly in my best interests. Not the same as someone wrestling your legs apart for 20 minutes but some of what you have said (being stared/shouted at) does strike a chord. I wish you well OP.

Sexually assaulted? Please. She was stopping medical professionals from doing their job for no good reason. No wonder people are leaving in droves. Maybe give birth alone off grid next time.

This is exactly what your birth partner is for though OP, to advocate for you when you cannot yourself during labour. For your partner to have said nothing, someone I assume you trust given you are having a baby together, it makes me wonder if this is (understandably) something that felt very different to you giving birth than objectively from the outside.

Were they forcing your legs open to try and help the baby be born, i.e. in the 'stirrups' position? Is that what they were trying to do? The way you are wording it makes it sounds like they were doing it for a sexual reason 'forcing my legs open' - Were they holding your legs up to open your pelvis as you pushed the baby out? It was probably uncomfortable and painful as baby came out, doesn't mean it was the wrong the to do

Who said anything about compensation? I have no financial injury. I just want the police to investigate my assault.

This. Plus patients speaking to doctors about 'research' they have done and arguing about treatment options, not realising how insulting the use of the word 'research' is.

I think the biggest issue is your recollection of events versus your husband just sitting there. The staff pinning you down and forcing your legs apart for 20 mins whilst you were repeatedly saying/shouting you didn’t consent yet your husband just sat by isn’t plausible. If he did do that then you are probably feeling double whammy of your husband not protecting you at your most vulnerable.
I’d definitely look into some type of counselling to help you process. I had a debrief with a specialist midwife and some counselling with a specialist nurse after my child was born with a significant disability and it did help. I experienced ptsd flashbacks until she was 5 ish so time also helped.

What do you think they might find?

I agree. Dreadful.

Donna Ockenden and Baroness Amos have been very busy because maternity treatment can be so bad. Poor OP is just one of many who have been treated very poorly.

It's wrong. It wasn't sexual to them but it definitely felt like a sexual assault to me. And the justification from others on this thread is the same: why were you there is you didn't want them to do it?

Were you by any chance about to give birth? Your legs need to be apart, whatever position you are in, so the baby can pass and be caught.

So if it wasn't sexual to them, why were they doing it?

So how were you going to give birth, OP? You say upthread you were nearly fully dilated (so had allowed an internal exam because you can't know this yourself) and the baby about to be born. Your pelvis needs to be wide enough for the head to pass through.

I was lying on my side with my legs closed until about ten minutes before my second was born when I had the urge to get up onto all fours. Your legs don't need to be splayed open and you definitely don't need to be on your back.

I have multiple experiences medical professions telling outright lies about medical conditions. One Dr was absolutely convinced a medical condition that is relatively common couldn't possibly exist. A degree doesn't make a person infallible.

The Drs who were delivering babies after cutting up dead bodies were sure they knew they were in the right not washing their hands and killing women left and right.

True, but it's clearly incorrect to say that episiotomies heal better than tears, given the vast majority of tears aren't 3rd/4th degree.

I'm not sure I would at all agreee with 'it doesn't matter what the emergency is'. It very much does and surely the life of the baby or the mother takes precedence. I'm not saying that was the case with you - and I'm sorry for the awful experience you had - but giving birth can be a life or death situation and it's quite extreme to suggest that no emergency matters more than the mother's consent. If nothing else, the mother may not be in a clear enough state of mind to understand exactly what's happening (because of labour hormones, additional pain relieving drugs etc).

I’m sorry OP, have just read your latest update. The police are not going to investigate the medics for sexually assaulting you in this scenario. You’ve made your complaints, hopefully if there are lessons they will be learned but I’d try and find a way to move on at this point.

Agree, I have friends and family who are midwives, I don’t doubt that some clinicians are rubbish/unkind/dismissive but the overwhelming feeling I get is a lot of women are “my body my choice” and “I know my baby best”. Well to a degree, sometimes, yes, but I can also think of several tales they’ve told me which make me think if left to their own devices natural selection would not be selecting them.

Why all this medical knowledge and training should be dismissed because “I didn’t want to lay on my back, it wasn’t harming the baby”. How do you know?!

I'm so sorry. That is so traumatic. Just sending you a ton of love and support 💐

Unfortunately I’m not sure what you can do. I was reading an article about a woman who had a consultant give her a forced vaginal examination and not stop when she was pleading no (NHS) the TWO midwives present helped her go to the police afterwards and they still were not interested.

You said there was meconium. This is dangerous so you not allowing a better reading was endangering your baby. Sorry, OP, to say so, but it was. It doesn't make the midwives' behaviour any better - good intentions usually lead to Hell - but they meant you and your baby well. A dead baby that was alive ten minutes before birth is beyond awful. They wanted to prevent that.

But the law says my body my choice is correct. I understand your point but every woman has the right to dismiss medical training and knowledge, women have to give permission and consent to everything, whether people agree with that or not.

I think midwives would think they're helping support you to give birth by holding open your legs and providing support to your legs for you to push against. Sounds like it was a miscommunication and you've been really affected by it which is horrible.

Being on your side with legs shut until you felt the urge to go on all fours sounds a lovely birth. Was that before or after this experience?

Did you have a birth plan this time OP?

I had a similar experience with the birth of my first child. Legs forced open and repeated vaginal examinations against my will. I said no and they did it anyway.

I was petrified, violated, traumatised. I know it was 27 years ago but I can still remember the fear and pain.

i did go on to have 3 more children and had better experiences but I’ll never forget that first midwife.

is it assault? I don’t know. It felt like it.