Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

Why were you doing that if you were giving birth? What was your thought process? Did you understand the baby was coming out?

OP, or anybody else, have you ever contacted one of the rape crisis helplines about this birth trauma? I have actually found them quite helpful for going over greyer areas of assault, and explaining in what ways a legal threshold may or may not have been breached, as well as providing emotional support to help your understand your own experience of the assault of course, too.

The baby wasn't coming out at that time. And if so women instinctively move their legs together to increase the pelvic outlet. The legs apart position benefits the caregivers not the woman.

Oh I am so sorry. That is just heartbreaking.

No-one is saying they should have gone for a cup of tea and left @NibliaBiblia to it, @MissMappsGardenProduce - what a ridiculous thing to say!

They should have de-escalated the situation, let her calm down, and then used their words to explain the necessity for the ctg trace, and how long it would take.

Forcing a woman’s legs apart is appalling care, unless there was an immediate emergency, which was NOT the case here.

I think that as this all seems to be some time ago with limited evidence, and you’ve gone on to have a second baby since, you’d be better looking at ways to help yourself past this trauma which don’t rely on a successful prosecution for assault. There’s no one here who knows enough about what actually happened to advise you on whether the midwives were in the wrong to the extent that they can be prosecuted for assault, and you’ve already been told there’s no likelihood of financial recompense.

I’d much rather taxpayer money went towards therapy for you, than on funding a case which isn’t likely to get anywhere and will mean you’re still stuck in processing your birth at the end of it.

It's not too late but brace yourself. The trust may be helpful but there also a good chance they'll be dismissive or evasive, or try to make out it's your fault.
You might be better off going to the CQC because they will beat it in mind next time they audit. Or the NMC if you feel it was an individual rather than the institution/collective - you can request your medical notes to get the name of the registrant, and the NMC helpline can advise you about whether it satisfied their requirements for a formal referral.

Yes, implied consent for small procedures is valid consent.

If I say to someone I want to do their obs and have a BP cuff in my hand and they stick their arm out to me I don’t say “can I take your blood pressure”.

if you turn up for a scan, jump on the couch and expose your body part which needs scanning then you ve consented.

That was horrible. I've had unpleasant experiences with nurses and it does affect you for years.
My Godmother was slapped across her legs many years ago because they were trying to manhandle her in a similar way to you. When she tried to complain after her son was born noone listened.
Someone had written hysterical patient.

They reach inside to check the position of the baby’s heading before applying forceps and also to guard maternal tissue when placing the forceps.

I haven't thought of that. That's an interesting idea, thank you.

Thank you ❤️‍🩹 and you too. Take it as far as you want to and hopefully it will inform practice going forwards. I hope you can heal from the horrible experience and enjoy your lovely DC, wishing you the very best 💐x

I want to do everything i can to stop it happening to other women. Talking about it here is part of that. Reporting it to the police is part of that.
I want the police to take it seriously this time, but also next time.
They used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that sexual harassment was just part of being a woman at work. They used to say that hitting kids in school was okay. These things change.

This is so sensible.
You can let this define your life or get on living it with your two healthy children.

I looked it up, yes Rape Crisis do support people considering reporting to the police and you could get an advocacy worker: https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/support-and-services/advocacy-isvas/

Even if you don't live in an area Rape Crisis have a local centre in, their Helpline will discuss the legal ins and outs of this situation with you if you request it and refer you on to other services if they deem it appropriate.

Don't worry, this is not stopping me from enjoying my children or my life.
I want to protect other women. This sort of thing is far too common, and far too often excused.

Thanks for this, yeah it was a woefully understaffed maternity ward but still, my injuries were so preventable and it really affected how I was able to look after baby for a long time after. I remember talking to a mum who went to the same hospital maternity unit around the same time and she was too traumatised about her experience to even talk about it 😢 things really do need to change. x

For everyone else who has has a similar experience, please go to Birthrights. They have so much information about your human rights and they have been immensely helpful.
For any maternity care workers who think this looks familiar, please go to Birthrights and please talk to your colleagues about this. Even if it's just to tell them about this stupid, arrogant poster on Mumsnet who reported some poor midwife to the police for trying to "help" her.

My SIL can't talk about it without tearing up.

Quite.

You said several midwives tried to open your legs for 20 minutes... several midwives! Are you saying that in all that time not one of them explained what they wanted you to do and why? And they all thought 'we will just ignore the mother and we will force her legs open,' like a conspiracy together? I just don't get it. Why were you so against them doing whatever it was they needed to do? I just don't get it. When I was in labour I just did what the midwives advised! I had two really difficult births and both births would have been sad events if the midwives hadn't manhandled me a bit!! At one point I was being told to lie on my back but I was deep in contractions so was ignoring them, they had to almost shout at me before I moved onto my back. But good that I did as they were able to realise that my baby was not engaged and was sideways and so was in distress at each contraction and in the end a doctor had to come in and physically turn the baby round from.the outside so it would head in correct direction! Was very scary. Minutes away from emergency c section etc. I was so glad they were in control of things. Surely this is what they are there for.

I agree that you should consent to any procedures etc. but what I'm trying to say is that when you are in labour you don't always hear what they are saying/do what is needed as you are in pain.

Do you think women who are raped shouldn't go to the police? Because they should live their lives and not let it control them? Because it's so unlikely there will be a prosecution?

Why would you think that your case has parallels with a rape case?

This would be a totally different point of law and would revolve around the standard of care given in your labour. This line of thinking really isn’t going to help you.

Was this the CTG clip they pop onto babys head instead of the one they put on your tummy?

Because it seems implausible! Several midwives for 20 mins? I cannot see how that could happen. That’s my thought process, that’s why I asked.