Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

Give it a rest. No need to be an arse to a traumatised woman ffs.

I am so sorry this happened to you.
I wonder if AIMS might be able to help.
https://www.aims.org.uk/

I bet you agree with the saying "leave your dignity at the door"

No-one is telling a midwife how to do her job. The OP didn't consent and was then forced.

A free service does not mean women should put up and shut up. If your relative was harmed by a Dr would you think it's ok because they didn't have to pay for it. Or because the Dr is an expert?

There are very strict rules around consent for a reason. We work in partnership with those in our care, our whole ethos is women-centred. Our very title means "with woman"

If there was an indication for the actions of the midwives they should have explained. I don't understand why women are so quick to accept such a misogynistic attitude.

It's possible in that situation they did as a cord that tight would be stopping him from coming down and affecting his heart rate. That's exceptional circumstances. A standard VE is just checking the cervix, they don't reach past the babies head, it sounds like your baby could have already been in the birth canal.

I've discussed with my midwife (currently pregnant again) , in exceptional circumstances when you have actual reason to believe I or my baby are in danger you absolutely act to save us. We have discussed what circumstances I consent to that. But otherwise, no one touches me, they will wait out of the room, DH will be at the business end but they can provide hand on hand support if needed and if in that moment I need DH facing me rather than delivering the baby they can, only then, provide support to reduce risk of tearing. My community midwife says I'm doing well to even be engaging with the hospital after how they treated me last time so is going to be on call for my labour to try to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Some people genuinely have low risk pregnancies and labours and still receive massive amounts of interventions that cause real harm, mentally and physically. And that is truly not ok. Yes doctors have saved many babies, but that doesn't change that they have also harmed many women.

I thought he wasn't "sectioned" because the psychiatric staff didn't want to be accused of being racist...

Not the same circumstances as you but I have recently been in Hospital for unexpected emergency surgery and was on iv antibiotics and fluids for 5 days . I was shocked at some of the nurses and phlebotomists. Some were amazing , approachable and reassuring but some were awful. One nurse told me I “wasnt allowed “ to leave the ward ,I just wanted some fresh air and peace after spending 4 days on an acute , noisy surgical ward. I work in MH and am familiar with detaining patients. I asked her if she would be using a DOLS or MHA and then she realised she was incorrect and was very different and pleasant after that. One phlebotomist was digging around in my vein trying to draw blood on the fifth consecutive day and I asked her to stop . She became very hostile and shouty . She told me I had to have the blood test , which was untrue. I feel as a patient you are expected to lie in a bed and not question any intervention. I asked for my blood results on the third day , to see if the antibiotics were working and the nurse asked quite rudely why did I want to know them and sat with his back to me at a computer screen. Another tried to give me the blood thinning injection , when I queried why she said “ everyone in Hospital has one daily” I refused until after the op . It was quite shocking being a in patient , when you’re unwell and alone it’s hard to advocate for yourself when you feel unwell too.

This is the bit that is still confusing me. I can”t understand why legs would need to be forced open to use the hockey puck on band which goes on belly.

previous posters when I asked said it must be the head clip but it appears not so why would legs need to be forced open to move the belly band?

I think it was to try and force her to lie down

I hope you have a more positive experience this time. I had quite a traumatic time with my first and ended up with a much more positive second experience. It did heal some of the trauma but not all.

I think they just preferred me in the lithotomy position. That's how they like women to give birth i guess **

Same. Very healing second birth.
That's why I can post about this now. Before my second I wouldn't have been able to read and respond to all these people scolding me for misbehaving and being dramatic without getting really upset.

As if they wanted to assault you for fun and laughs. It was for health reasons

Again I’m still not getting how forcing legs open would make her lie down…she was already on her side.

If forcing someone to lie on back then their legs don’t need to be pulled open.

I’m not getting the link here to the monitor and the legs needing forced open.

Mine was sadly a bit undone with my third as I had to go back into hospital which just caused me flashbacks but I had my friend advocating for me and that really helped. Plus one of the managers helped me with a birth plan that really helped.

Some of the responses on here are just awful.

This. Multiple medical professionals all in agreement as to the course of action would suggest a necessity rather than them all deciding to disregard your consent and comfort. Unless of course OP is suggesting a conspiracy…

I was lying on my side. They were standing behind me, pulling my top leg towards them, to roll me into my back. Once i gave in, they weren't satisfied with that. They kept going on at me until i let them out me in lithotomy/stirrups. I think the stirrups was just their preference.

Then I'm really surprised that they didn't document any other reason than to get a better CTG contact. There are other ways to do that.

Hi OP, I have read the whole thread and it makes for a very sobering read and I’m so sorry this happened to you. You have been given a hard grilling on here which I don’t feel is warranted. Your experience is valid, you have a voice and I think you are right to complain. The midwives should have been talking to you and your husband also advocating for you and if there was an emergency pending it should have been properly explained and better care provided.

I was put into an unnatural birth position. Mine was for hours and I was told to stay in that position, I couldn’t feel the damage it was doing to my hips and ligaments due to an epidural. It was only later it became apparent my hips had been pulled out to the point of near dislocation. I left hospital in a wheelchair. Post birth couldn’t stand or walk and no help was offered on the maternity ward, not even crutches when I begged for them to help me get to the toilet. The pain was inhuman. When I asked for bed pan or commode the ward staff got angry. Needed a wheelchair for 2 months and took a full year to recover my mobility to the point of being able to stand and walk normally again. Trying to care for my newborn with feeding problems and being in that degree of agony was so hard and traumatic, combined with other birth injuries. My legs had been pushed apart so hard and wide, like the splits, and kept in that position for 6 hours (mechanically in stirrups). Basically I was unnecessarily disabled by my medical team. The midwives also coached me to push as hard as I could constantly for over 2 hours, which resulted in prolapse and added to the pain/ mobility problems.

What happens when the mother comes back and says "Of course I didn't refuse consent to what they wanted to do. Why would any sensible mother refuse consent to anything that was in their unborn baby's best interests? If the records show I refused consent then they've been altered after the event. Medical negligence!"

Or ... "When they asked me if I consented they didn't adequately explain to me what risks refusal had for my unborn baby. If they'd asked for my proper informed consent of course I'd have given it rather than have a child that will need lifelong care. If the record shows differently then it's been altered. Medical negligence!"

Or... upon reaching the age of 18 could a congentially disabled child sue their mother for negligence if they could prove their disabilities arose from the mother's refusal of consent?

If i refuse consent to a lifesaving operation I'm the only person who is physically affected by it, and so long as my doctors have advised me appropriately, there can be no medical negligence on their part, plus my non-consent will be documented. I understand that the law (and presumably you) do not see an unborn child as a "person" with any human rights, but I'm not as confident as the law is (and presumably you are) that that is either morally or ethically correct.

Of course we can both agree to disagree on moral and ethical issues...

I never reported it to the trust, typing it out tonight I wonder if I should or if it’s too late (was a few years ago). I was also given a vaginal exam the day after giving birth which was heavy handed and painful and they didn’t stop when I asked them to.

OP, I think your situation very clearly outlines the endemic problems in maternity care, and how insult is added to injury when women complain and experience many of the things you experienced in trying to do so.

One of the points made in the latest Ockenden report, and subsequent reporting around it, was that many of the women and their families affected by poor care were not necessarily litigious. They had been forced into legal action when they were repeatedly not listened to via the official channels.

You have made very clear you are not trying to get money out of them, you are trying to get justice. Yet, the hospital has repeatedly failed to give you a satisfactory response, and the police have failed to recognise that this event crossed a criminal threshold. A medical intervention being 'urgent' does not mean that it wasn't done coercively, which is not lawful.

I get the impression you have already informed yourself on this topic, but Birthrights has some good resources on coercion: birthrights.org.uk/campaigns-research/end-coercive-practices-in-maternity-care/

Implying a woman must reveal a history of sexual trauma, in order for her description of obstetric violence to be believed and empathised with, is gross misogyny and bordering on rape apology. Shame on you.

There is absolutely no reason for any midwife to spend an inordinate amount of time trying to force a woman to open her legs versus having a conversation, explaining what was going on and making a plan. It’s not my birth and not my body. There’s lots of ways to work together to get the monitoring done and not physically assault a woman in labour.

A huge number of people seem to believe medical staff MUST have good reasons to take any actions they take, and that it's somehow ungrateful not to let them do whatever they want to you, no matter the consequences. It's disturbing and part of the reason why I didn't have children.