Obstetric violence - legs forced open against my will

[NibliaBiblia]

When I was in labour with my daughter, the midwives spent twenty minutes trying to force my legs open to get me flat on my back with my legs up. There was no emergency. It was so they could get a better CTG reading. I physically resisted for as long as I could and verbally told them to stop. They didn't stop until I gave up. After that they did other things without my consent, but I did not they to stop them again.
I complained to the hospital and they have done nothing. I complained to the police and they told me there must have been an emergency. I've complained to the NMC and the CQC. I hope they will do something but it's a long process so I won't know for a long time.
The police used to say that domestic violence was a private matter. They used to say that if you got in the car/went into the apartment/were drinking then you must have agreed to it. I think this is exactly the same type of justification, applied to equally criminal behaviour.
I don't think my experience is abnormal. I think this is fairly routine. They thought that when I gave up that meant I consented.

"all that matters is that baby gets here safely"
People have this drilled into them.

No that's not all that matters. I actually had a consultant ask me "don't you care about your baby's safety?!" When I was refusing induction for being "overdue" despite the fact that all tests, scans, monitoring showed myself and baby to be perfectly healthy and that I knew they had my dates wrong because I knew when I ovulated. I'd have had to be pregnant, then have a period, then ovulate again to match their dates.

But I clearly didn't care about the baby id carried for 9 months, taken vitamins every day, cut out caffeine etc for just because I wasn't willing to rush a perfectly healthy pregnancy.

Some people are very fortunate to not experience it, or they just accept that it's a part of birth. But I don't know many women who are happy with the medical care they received. And I know multiple women who consider their treatment to be assault.

I think next time, maybe you and the father of the baby should stay in your bathroom and have a homebirth.

Just as we are hearing about masses of teachers leaving the profession, I predict that cases like these will lead to midwives leaving. In fact, I know one who already has.

I know this is the minority view on this thread but it is my view, just the same.

It's that kind of attitude that keeps me in my job so I can help women not feel traumatised. It's why I went into midwifery.The vast majority of midwives want a positive outcome for mum as well as baby. Your kind of attitude is thankfully being challenged more and more. Still a very long way to go but it's a start.

Midwives are leaving because they can't give good care due to staffing pressures, bad management decisions and feeling they are not being listened too. Not because women complain they have been traumatised.

I think midwives who can't trust themselves not to spend twenty minutes attempting to force a woman's legs open should leave the profession.
If a woman declines something, document it. They have no more right to force me onto my back than I have the right to force them onto their backs.

Why do you need to know? Knowing if a cord is round the neck or not when the baby is so high up/still inside that you need to do an internal is of no clinical benefit. What you going to do if you did find a cord round the neck while the baby is still in utero? You’re not going to be un looping it. Different story if the head has delivered but then you don’t need to do an internal. I’m not even sure you could get your fingers high enough up past an undelivered head to feel for a cord.

No, I agree they haven't and they should have just left you to it-you with all your knowledge-and gone for a cup of tea.

I certainly wouldn't have "forced" you.

Can’t help but agree. Sometimes you just don’t know best.

"Forced"??
How many people and for how long would they have had to spend attempting to physically overpower me for you to accept I was assaulted? 30 minutes, 40? 5 people, 10? Put into handcuffs?
Even if you think it's justified, it's still force.

Exactly. You don't need to be flat on your back for a CTG and you certainly don't need your legs open.

PPs are endlessly scolding the OP for "putting her baby in danger" by not wanting a CTG and she has said repeatedly that she was fine with the CTG, it was being held down and her legs forced open she objected to.

Actually by the pushing stage having your knees together and your ankles apart is better than ankles together and knees apart as the former widens the outlet of the pelvis and the latter widens the inlet which is more useful when descent is needed into the top of the pelvis. Not for descent out the bottom of the pelvis. So it sounds like poor biomechanics as well.

what would have been even better would have been talking to the OP about an fse on baby’s head so no need for an abdominal ctg and letting her get into a position she instinctively wanted to get into.

I think it's mostly women who were not given choices or treated with respect in their own labours, and they think that treatment is what saved their baby. It's really sad.

If you've given your arm for a cannula to be inserted or turned up for a scan surely you've given consent.

How dare I expect to be treated like a human being who gets to stop people from laying their hands on me.

Laying their hands on you!!!!!!

Do you expect them to shout instructions from a doorway!

I bet now they wish they had.

You know very little about birth and midwifery

You've obviously been really impacted by this and im sorry you had such a traumatic time, however, I just dont believe they were just sadists or doing what they had to do just for their own convenience. I don't really get why you'd not just do as they asked and why such a strong refusal, making it so they felt they had to be like this. You have a healthy baby now and honestly, I think you need to just be grateful your kid is healthy and move on. The police have already told you they're not willing to investigate, rightly or wrongly. If you consider the crimes which are not investigated by police these days, this is not surprising. Don't let it take over your life.

sorry but I think calling this “sexual assault “ is not correct . I can’t imagine there was any sexual intent whatsoever when they were doing it .

No, it was not sexual assault. It was assault.
To me, subjectively, it felt like being sexually assaulted.

Medical paternalism at its finest.

This is the kind of dismissive attitude the word was invented for.

Well, You're partially right.

I know about the experience of birth, having experienced it.

I went to a hospital for the birth because I know little about midwifery and was glad of the care and expertise who those who did.

When I go to the dentist, he doesn't have to force me to open my mouth open, if I go to an optician, they don't have to force me to have stuff puffed up my eye.

But midwives, well that seems to be another matter. Many people , as shown by this thread, have demonstrated that they do not trust the professionalism of these-mostly-women.

I imagine the OP doesn't have a screaming match at the dentist or optician but because we all have a fanny through which a baby has to come out, then everyone is suddenly an expert.

It's a bit like parents telling teachers they know what's best, because they too went to school.

As I say, it's a free service.

If you don't want to take advantage of the help of trained people who have probably helped hundreds of women to give birth, who know more than you, then stay at home and don't waste their time or, worse, go to the police about them.

I'm really struggling with the thought that anyone could keep there legs closed for 20 minutes whilst having contractions and with people trying to pull them open.

Fair enough, I must be mistaken then. I thought they reached inside before they used the forceps w ds1 (who had the cord so tightly round his neck that it snapped when they were freeing it). But it was a long time ago and the last bit went very quickly so I must be misremembering.

I think alot of the problem on this thread is that people don't believe they would be forcing you in that position just for a ctg because it can be done in any position.

But yeah there are midwives that insist on you being in that position because it's easier for them. Mine was the same, every 15 minutes. He was back to back so I was most comfortable on all 4s but every 15 minutes they made me lie on my back. Even making me get out the birthing pool to lie on my back on the bed. Every single time the moving caused the worst contractions, it was horrible. I didn't fight, I just let them and cried in pain.

For all her complaints, if they had have stopped ‘forcing’ her, and something had gone catastrophically wrong affecting her baby, I bet she’d be screaming malpractice.