Entitled older men (with no kids) colonising the kids’ park. Help me kick them out!

[exox]

I’m putting this in Feminism because it’s about a group of entitled fucking men putting their convenience above the needs of others. I need your help to move them on.

Our local park is a big green space (about 3 football fields) containing a designated gated children’s play area. We (both female) come here with our DD (10) to play on the way to school. A small group of older men (60+), no kids with them, are meeting to exercise their dogs off leads inside the play park. I’ve told the council, but there’s no law against dogs off leads in play parks in our area.

When DW took DD there the other day, one of the dogs started running at her and wouldn’t come when called. (Dog wasn’t aggressive, but was very much NOT under control. We are used to dogs and don’t have a problem with dogs on leads in the playground with families, etc.)

DW asked them to leave, and they did, grumpily, but then started swearing about her and slagging off her appearance in our DD’s hearing.

So today, DW has parked up next to the playpark and the men were there again. DD refused to go in the park because of them - she didn’t want any conflict - and didn’t want DW to talk to them.

I’ve confronted them in the past and asked them to leave, and said that their presence deters others. They claim that they’d move if people wanted to come in, but the way the park is laid out, you can clearly see from a distance who’s in there. They just don’t get that their presence is putting people off using the space. And that because they’re not watching their dogs, the dogs could be merrily shitting in corners of the playground.

This is, for me, a feminist issue. These fuckers are taking up space that isn’t meant for them, purely because it’s convenient for them, and they don’t care how their presence affects others. This space is literally designed for children and those who care for them - in practice, in our area, this is primarily (but not exclusively) women. It’s the entitlement and literally taking up space that’s not meant for them that ENRAGES me.

I’ve told the council and nothing has happened. They’re talking about a ‘polite notice’ asking people to keep dogs on leads. That doesn’t address the problem.

I’m looking for (legal!) ideas to create positive change here, given that confronting them hasn’t changed their behaviour. I am SO angry!!!!

I think maybe the issue is that these guys don’t expect kids to use the park at that time of day so they don’t think they’re causing any harm. We are usually the only family in there before school. But maybe others would drop by for a quick go on the slide if the dog men weren’t there…

I would, as others have suggested, forget the dogs and make it a men in a children's playground thing.
I wouldn't be above shouting the P word at them, either.

I have to say i know exactly zero parents who take their kids to the park before school, not that it makes any difference to whether the men should be using the playground, but that is also quite odd to me. Or uncommon at least.
.

You'd look like you need to be sectioned.

They would probably argue that they leave if any kids come in. But they don’t get that their presence puts kids off in the first place, my DD for one.

We have a similar problem, where the whole field behind my garden used to be securely fenced in one piece, including the area with play equipment. The big grassed area was mowed regularly and was ideal for a kick about, rounders, picnics etc.

Most people kept their dogs on leads, however a few people let their dogs run free, so I assume someone complained about dog poo around the equipment.

The council had the bright idea of fencing the play part off, leaving the rest accessible by a smallish gap in the fence, where owners sit, and let the dogs off-lead.

The whole non-kiddies area is now used as a free running (and pooing) field.

Since this happened no-one except dogs ever uses the field, because it is riddled with dog mess.

I don't have dogs or young children, but feel enraged on a daily basis. Though it is nice for the dogs, but surely it is more important for children to have a safe space to run about.

Well, we do. We drop off older DS as he starts school earlier, and we wait at the park. One of DD’s friends has started joining us there when the dog men aren’t about. It’s a really nice way to start the day.

I'd be worried it will start an expectation that I can't always fulfil as demands from work and school grow, but I'm a worrier.

This is principally a local matter, so use your local Cllrs in the first instance, go on the Council website and find the Cabinet member for Parks & Amenities, cc the officers that you have been dealing with to explain the position. Explain that the dogs are a nuisance but also other parents are finding the presence of these gentlemen unsettling and ask how this can be resolved. Invite the Cabinet member to visit the park with you and your child...

Use the MPs much later on in your campaign.

I know what you mean. TBH though, we’ll have this little window of waiting time until DD goes to secondary school, and I’d rather we spent it in the park than in the car. DD is 10 and quite flexible in her thinking. I couldn’t have done pre-school park trips when my eldest was 5, say, because it would have been a nightmare to get him to leave!

I hate a Facebook shaming, but this is a situation I would make an exception for. Take photos of them, blur the faces, post on facebook then let the fb warriors rip them to shreds. Entitled pricks 😡

Ah yeah I envisaged a younger kid tbh

It could go the other way with people saying as long as they are out by 10am or whatever when people actually start bringing kids over, it's fine.

Don't care.
It might make them get out, for fear of stigma.
Entitled men need to keep out of other people's spaces.

No it would just make people totally dismiss you and support the men in being there. There would be conversation about the danger of mentally ill people in the streets before there was talk of getting rid of the men. You'd be ridiculed and feared for the wrong reasons. People would pity your kids and family.

Don't do that to yourself.

Contact your local councillors, and those for the area the park is in, if different.

Don't be fobbed off with "there's no by-law" to prevent dogs in the play area - suggest they create one.

Suggest they create a fenced-off dog exercise area in the park.

The absolute naïveté and lack of awareness men have.

no women and children are going to actively want to spend time in a play park where a bunch of men are just hanging around

They won't be interested if you are not in their constituency sadly. I have a similar problem. My main town is one constituency but my end is in another and I am stuck when it comes to raising any issues in the town as neither want to know.

In our area playgrounds have a sign on the fence saying they are intended for kids and you aren’t allowed in without a child. I’d be lobbying the council/MP for one of these.

We also have various gated and fenced grassy areas which are specifically Dog Free so that people don’t have to worry about poo in that area (or dogs if scared).

I do see that there could be a need for a fenced dog area massive pooing area for less obedient dogs but I would have thought that’s far outweighed by the need for a dog free zone.

Anyway this sounds like a play area so would be entirely appropriate for it to be only for people with a child. For many reasons.

Are they the sort that put flags on lamp posts?

The absolute entitlement of men. What women is going to want to risk rape or murder by fencing her self on with strange men and allow her child to play amongst unsupervised dogs.

Check the swings for dog bite marks and take photos. There's a park not far from me that I wont use because delightful locals train their extra low iq moster dogs to bite and attack the rubber seats. Send these to your councillors and mp and post on Facebook.

Another park near me has had the beautiful rose garden colonised by groups of male drinkers.

I know. Sadly, I think it goes further than lack of awareness. A woman has told them that their presence deters people from coming in, but they have shrugged it off. 😡

I have seen a certain breed of human with a certain breed of dog teaching their dogs to attack seats. Then there are the weed smokers ...........

Haven’t read all the posts but as this is a council amenity you need to get your local
country/district/parish/whatever councillor Involved. They will be a position to influence council decisions and policy, for example to designate a no dog area. Find out who your local councillors are for the council involved and ask to meet them at the park initially to see the problem for themselves. If you can get a group of parents involved in this, so much that better. Councillors are often very motivated to get involved in visible local issues (not all obvs).

These dogs aren’t scary, thank goodness, just poorly trained. But the principle still stands.