Entitled older men (with no kids) colonising the kids’ park. Help me kick them out!

[exox]

I’m putting this in Feminism because it’s about a group of entitled fucking men putting their convenience above the needs of others. I need your help to move them on.

Our local park is a big green space (about 3 football fields) containing a designated gated children’s play area. We (both female) come here with our DD (10) to play on the way to school. A small group of older men (60+), no kids with them, are meeting to exercise their dogs off leads inside the play park. I’ve told the council, but there’s no law against dogs off leads in play parks in our area.

When DW took DD there the other day, one of the dogs started running at her and wouldn’t come when called. (Dog wasn’t aggressive, but was very much NOT under control. We are used to dogs and don’t have a problem with dogs on leads in the playground with families, etc.)

DW asked them to leave, and they did, grumpily, but then started swearing about her and slagging off her appearance in our DD’s hearing.

So today, DW has parked up next to the playpark and the men were there again. DD refused to go in the park because of them - she didn’t want any conflict - and didn’t want DW to talk to them.

I’ve confronted them in the past and asked them to leave, and said that their presence deters others. They claim that they’d move if people wanted to come in, but the way the park is laid out, you can clearly see from a distance who’s in there. They just don’t get that their presence is putting people off using the space. And that because they’re not watching their dogs, the dogs could be merrily shitting in corners of the playground.

This is, for me, a feminist issue. These fuckers are taking up space that isn’t meant for them, purely because it’s convenient for them, and they don’t care how their presence affects others. This space is literally designed for children and those who care for them - in practice, in our area, this is primarily (but not exclusively) women. It’s the entitlement and literally taking up space that’s not meant for them that ENRAGES me.

I’ve told the council and nothing has happened. They’re talking about a ‘polite notice’ asking people to keep dogs on leads. That doesn’t address the problem.

I’m looking for (legal!) ideas to create positive change here, given that confronting them hasn’t changed their behaviour. I am SO angry!!!!

This is not about men in parks, it is about people with dogs exercising them in designated children’s play areas. I’m assuming it’s the dogs you object to rather than just the men, and that you’d feel the same way of the dog owners were female?
Your fight is with the Council, who should be properly signposting the play area to remind dog owners that dogs are not allowed in there.

If they are allowed in there, I don't see what you can do. But I find it bizarre that dogs are allowed. Where I live, dogs are absolutely not allowed in playgrounds. So maybe you need to keep pressing the council.

The council has said that there is no bylaw preventing dogs from being exercised in there. They say the dogs need to be under control, but they can’t enforce them being on a lead. There are notices in other parks in the area saying ‘dogs should be kept on leads’ but that’s as far as it goes.

Yes, of course I’d be enraged if it was women behaving like this, but in this case, it is a group of men who, when asked to put their dogs on leads, have then shamed the woman in question in front of her kid.

So men are deliberately ignoring the vast grassy area to stand in gated play area with their dogs?

Yes. It is fucking enraging. It’s a huge park, but there is a road at each end, so if they don’t have good control over their dogs, the gated park is a nice secure option. We used to exercise our dog in the huge grassy area, as do many considerate dog owners in the area!

Can you get your MP on board? This sounds like the sort of issue an MP would eat for breakfast.

I’ll give it a go. I’m not their constituent because we live just over the boundary, but presumably they’ll still take it on board…

Put a post on your local facebook group saying that there is a problem with single, older males without children hanging round the children’s play area, and warn people to be on their guard.

The resulting hysteria will ensure they steer clear in future.

We know some lovely dogs and fabulous dog owners but the shitty owners with poorly trained dogs are getting out of control. I probably wouldn't do this as I wouldnt want to risk hurting the dog as it's not it's fault it's owner is so crap but I'd be sorely tempted to get out a picnic basket and bring out chocolate and grapes as a little morning snack. If the dog can't be controlled that's not your fault.

Again wouldn't do it because the dog would be collateral damage but honestly sometimes these people need to learn consequences.

Ha, yes. I’m not on FB but DW was thinking about doing this.

That is bloody weird and you say intimidating, I bet it is a dominance /obnoxious thing. You could maybe go to your mp or local councillor surgery about it, most large parks don't allow dogs in fenced play parks.

Write a letter copying both MPs in - you’ll need to be a constituent to get something done imo.

Thry will probably refer you to your councillors but they might jump higher if it comes from
the MP.

I agree it’s a feminist issue.

There's nothing you can do if dogs are permitted in there and are permitted to be off lead. To prove a dog is dangerously out of control, it would have to actually harm someone or cause harm by its actions, which it doesn't sound like it has. This would have to be evidenced.

It's shitty of them to do imo but they aren't doing anything illegal. If you have the problem, all you can do is leave yourself.

Is the area fenced and gated? If so I’d imagine they want to do man-talk without the need to fully control their dog.

Was about to post exactly this.

if you want to go nuclear post some photos with their faces blurred out and sit back and watch…

What time of the day are they doing this?

No dogs are allowed in our local playgrounds unless they are assistance dogs. I don't understand why they are letting in dogs on leads unless local dog owners have protested for this.

It’s exactly this. The kids’ park is fenced and gated; the huge grassy area is not. They stand and chat in the kids’ park while their dogs run around inside.

8-8.30 am. Sadly our council have told me there is no bylaw in our area that allows them to enforce keeping dogs on leads, or to keep dogs out of the playground. I don’t have a problem with dogs on leads in a playground, per se.

See my (old) local park has always had a fenced off area where way back when, it was designed for you to run your dog in there to poo. Of course now, you're expected to clean it up and that idea of getting them to do it at a set time only never really worked out. Nevertheless, this fenced off area remains.

Some people have mistook this area for being enclosed for the sake of kids, and so set up a picnic and play area and then get annoyed that someone has come in with a dog and let them off lead, but it always was a dog area. It's very handy for when you have a dog that needs to learn to be obedient off the lead. All parks should have this enclosed space.

Borrow a really big aggressive dog and exercise your right to let it off the lead in the play area, tell them it's to keep it away from other dogs as it gets a bit nasty off the head.

See that's weird to me, why don't you think that's a problem? It makes me think that your area is particularly "doggy" and therefore locals are not used to applying common sense rules to dog ownership. Which would align with the attitude of these men.

Totally agree. I absolutely understand that people want to exercise their dogs off lead safely.

This is an excellent idea by @MrsPapillon to post on local Facebook and Next Door network. Can you get together a bunch of militant mums (or dads as well) to confront them? Make them feel uncomfortable to be in the kids area and they will go elsewhere.

It’s not a particularly doggy area, tbh. When we had a dog, we’d check the rules on any playground we visited, and if we could take her in, we would. I don’t think there’s an intrinsic issue with dogs on leads with families in playgrounds. The big grassy area has loads of considerate dog owners who never bring their dogs into the play park; this is just the same 3-4 men every time, so I don’t think it’s a local culture thing.

I've never really thought about it but I do know that all my local playgrounds have "no dogs" signs and they'd have to or the mummies would be bringing in their snappy little terriers.